Brazil invited Ahmadinejad to a State visit

[Lord Consul]

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil -- Brazil's government is reaching out to Iran, suggesting that its president visit the South American nation in the coming year, an official said yesterday.

In Tehran, Foreign Minister Celso Amorim gave Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a letter from President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva proposing that the two leaders meet.

Brazil, which has made massive offshore oil discoveries in the past year, rejected an Iranian invitation in September to join the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries.

Iran has moved to increase ties with other Latin American nations, particularly Venezuela and Bolivia, much to the irritation of the United States, which has no diplomatic relations with the Middle Eastern country. The U.S. has accused Iran of developing nuclear weapons, but Iran insists that its nuclear program is peaceful.

This is a shame. I'm boiling with rage right now. It is completely, totally unacceptable for a democratic country to invite the nominal head of a Islamic dictatorship - one that denies Israel's right to exist! - for a state visit.

Brazil, who used to have one of the most professional Foreign Services in the world, had its foreign policy dumbed down by Lula's administration. It's not disgraceful enough to conduct informal talks with the likes of the FARC, now our glorious President intends to sign a Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation with Iran - of all countries!

When De Menezes was shot by the Scotland Yard, Brazil's delegation walked around the UN parroting some bull**** about human rights, democracy and the like. Now the same administration wants to stregthen the country's ties to Iran - a country where gays are shot like criminals!? It's ridiculous.

Luckily, my government had still the vestige of intelligence to refuse the invitation to join the OPEC. If we did join, I'd ask for political asylum in Canadian embassy.

[Last Roman]

Heh, I'm actually surprised by this. I thought that Brazil generally focused on South America alone. Why do you think this happened, really, out of the blue? I mean, it's not like they can really piss off the Bush administration anymore.

[ErikinWest]

Oh my, maybe they just want to help normalize relations with a blacklisted country? Diplomacy never hurts...

Cheers,
Erik

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Let's go over some ground realities:

"Undemocratic" Iran occupies no foreign land.
"Democratic" Israel occupies the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

Iran has not made aggression on any country in the last 50 years.
Israel has initiated more than 3 wars and brutally occupied Lebanon in 1978.

Iran does not support the Taliban, Al-Qaeda or any known terrorist group. Hezbollah is not a terrorist group (according to 95%+ of the Unislamic world).
Israel's collective punishment and "a brick for a pebble" policy are condemned worldwide.


So what exactly is it about Iran that makes you sick? OK, they punish adulterers (people who cheat on their spouses, families and tarnish their family's honor and dignity). What else? They punish homosexuals - so what? Israel punishes pedophiles and I see no difference.


There are two important notes worth considering from your post. 1) Israel tries very viciously to pose as a peace-loving democracy whereas the reality suggests other, more realistic conclusions; and 2) Iran is not the monster the tele wants you to believe.

[Caelius]

"Undemocratic" Iran occupies no foreign land.

That doesn't abstain it from being undemocratic.

Iran has not made aggression on any country in the last 50 years.

Not true.

Iranian militants invaded the United States Embassy in 1979. A de facto act of war, and a recognized act of aggression under international law.

You can of course try to whitewash this fact with the notion that the militants were somehow "justified" in doing so in their revolution against the US supported Shah, but its not going to change the fact that it was an act of aggression against the sovereign territory of another country.

There was also a covert operation which resulted in the bombing of the Israeli Embassy to Argentina in 1992 which is widely known to have had Iranian ties.

Considering Iran's links to Hezbollah militants in Lebanon, or the cross border support of Iraqi insurgents in the last few years, that's also somewhat of a misnomer as well.

Iran does not support the Taliban, Al-Qaeda or any known terrorist group. Hezbollah is not a terrorist group (according to 95%+ of the Unislamic world).

More than 15 countries have listed Hezbollah as a terrorist organization, in addition to a resolution by the EU Parliament.

Groups such as the Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International also have documented evidence of war crimes committed by the militant wing of the organization. Primarily acts such as using non-combatant civilians as human shields.

So what exactly is it about Iran that makes you sick?

The country's government is a totalitarian religious theocracy that oppresses its people.

Like many other dictatorships throughout history it has sought to maintain its hold on power by maintaining a parallel military/paramilitary force. The regular military forces are kept separate from more internal forces like those of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard so that the regime can use its most loyal and fanatical supporters to crack down on internal dissent from the Iranian populace, as well as to monitor the less "devoted" factions within the traditional military to prevent any possible coups.

Here's a hint for you, you can always tell the clear signs of a dictatorship when the government of a particular country maintains a parallel military establishment. The Iranians are no different from Saddam Hussein's Iraq, Communist Russia, and Nazi Germany in this regard.

[MaryPoppinCaps]

Maybe if we treat Iran equally they will reform. Our sanctions and very stern talking to's aren't really helping.

I don't see any problem with two leaders meeting. It's not like they are forming a fascist alliance against all freedom lovers -- much like yourself.

Or maybe Brazil wants a piece of that peaceful nuclear technology. The US is so bad at sharing

And by the way, "a nominal Islamic dictatorship" -- What if it was a Christian one? Or perhaps Tibet decides to become a dictatorship, oh no, attack of the fascist Buddhists!

But like I said, it's just two leaders having a nice little visit and talking small talk, why get so irritated about it?

[Lord Consul]

Or maybe Brazil wants a piece of that peaceful nuclear technology. The US is so bad at sharing

Brazil is light-years ahead of Iran when it comes to nuclear tech. Bear in mind Brazil has already nuclear bomb capability - but like Germany, Japan and countless other countries, it isn't interested, as a peaceful country, to turn that capability into reality.

However, Brazil tarnishes its own credentials by engaging with countries such as Iran.

And by the way, "a nominal Islamic dictatorship" -- What if it was a Christian one? Or perhaps Tibet decides to become a dictatorship, oh no, attack of the fascist Buddhists!

The "Islamic" adjective is there to denote that the country is ruled by Ayatollahs. Thankfully, I do not close ranks with the many Islam-haters of this forum.

So what exactly is it about Iran that makes you sick? OK, they punish adulterers (people who cheat on their spouses, families and tarnish their family's honor and dignity). What else? They punish homosexuals - so what? Israel punishes pedophiles and I see no difference.

Two consenting adults (be they male or female) can do whatever they want. Children simply do not have the discernment to give consent. It's really a straw man to compare homosexuality to paedophilia.

As a liberal democracy whose very President participated last year in the world's largest Gay rights parade, I find it hypocritical that Brazil - whose Foreign Service loves to flouts its supposedly liberal profile - is now making diplomatic overtures to a country where homosexuals are treated as dirt. And I'm citing just one issue.

Heh, I'm actually surprised by this. I thought that Brazil generally focused on South America alone. Why do you think this happened, really, out of the blue? I mean, it's not like they can really piss off the Bush administration anymore.

Brazil is very active when it comes to global diplomacy. You have to bear in mind that in the last 5 years the country has been trying to become a permanent UNSC member - a move met with frigid reserve by the Bush Administration. I suspect, given Lula's famous pettiness, that he is doing this to take a piss at Bush before he leaves.

[Caelius]

and any of that is so different from Israel, how?

Don't get stuck on stupid.

Israel doesn't operate parallel branches of its military. It also doesn't have a theocratic and oligarchic group of un-elected leaders who have sway on who get appointed to government positions, or who can be appointed as the country's head of state.

[Ulyaoth]

I'm sick of hearing Iran denies Israel's right to exist. Why should the west give a damn what Israel's problems are, the whole point of Israel was that the Jews wouldn't be anyone's problem anymore and they could deal with things themselves. They're more than capable of terrorizing the entire mideast without us now what with all the crap we've given them.

And PMC, you see nothing different in punishing pedophiles and homosexuals? There's a big difference.

[jankren]

I sense that Lord Consul may be up to something. :hmmm:

[Erwin Rommel]

OH OH! I want all of Brazil's finest in the lingerie industry line up and show their beauty in front of Ahmadinejad in the airport!

[Mikelus Trento]

*grabs some popcorn and pulls up a chair in anticipation of a juicy thread*

[Ulyaoth]

and any of that is so different from Israel, how?

[touchmaster]

I don't know why any country would invite that to visit there country.

[HorseArcher]

Brazil, which has made massive offshore oil discoveries in the past year, rejected an Iranian invitation in September to join the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries.

People still think in some sort of "love/hate" relationship with Iran. I just quoted why Ahamdijenad is going to Brazil.

People who wants to make profit, couldn't care less if they are dealing with the devil himself.

USA and Israel doesn't want to deal with Iran, because Iran doesn't want to trade with them. Brazil, Venezuela or Russia are all want either oil or want to sell oil.

No magic here, democracy or not, that's the least concern. It's the war of the Banks oil an profit. They don't care about who is nice or not.

[Heathen Hammer]

I don't see anything particulary bad in actions of Ahmadinejad. His talking about Israel is just dick waving - like Bush talking about installing a "democracy" in Iraq. Ahmadinejad seems to me a good actor and a sane person. I doubt he would nuke someone or anything like that. The only thing I don't like about Iran is religious fanatism. Religious fanatism, would it be Christianity, Judaism or Islam seems pretty pointless to me. Maybe going more liberal on personal life and not saying crazy stuff (like nuking Israel) will make Iran the most stable and reliable country in the region. Iran doesn't go isolationist and thats a good sign.

[roy34543]

This is stupid for two reasons
First, If you want to have a proper relationship, Send the damn supreme leader. Hes not much better then ahmenidaj but he can be talked to with a modicum of respectability.
Second, Saying "omg Israel is horrible" does not really cancel out the fact that Iran would still be a opressive theocracy, doesnt matter what Israel does, theyre still certainly not good people.

[jankren]

I dont like Iran's theocratic form of government, but I like Ahmadinejad.

[roy34543]

I dont like Iran's theocratic form of government, but I like Ahmadinejad

Because he ruined the Iranian economy and makes Iranians misreable and masks it in religous and nationalist fervor?
You have amazing taste in people jankren!

[Admiral Nelson]

Ironically, everyone hates (the admittedly loathsome) President Ahmadinejad, who was elected democratically, but not a whisper is heard about the theocratic dictator, Ayatollah Khamenei, who really controls the country.