War of 1812 Victor

[Eupholi]

In my Canadian History class we learned a little bit about the War of 1812, a war between the Americans and British controlled Canada. My teacher said that many Americans believe that the war was a victory, can any Americans who think this tell me why?

The Americans wanted to conquer all of the British colonies that still existed in North America. They were not able to conquer Canada even though we had a population of 500 000 and at this time their were 7 million Americans. So why if you did you not achieve your objectives is it considered a success?

The Canadian and British forces only wanted to keep their lands in what is now Canada, and they successfully did this. They held off the Americans and were able to keep their lands. Why don't all the history books say that The British-Canadians won?

[L'Afrique]

Only Brits and Canadians claim that conquest of British North America was an objective of the US. In reality, the US' goal was to enforce its maritime rights and force withdrawal of British troops from the west. Both of these goals were achieved. The conquest of Canada was nothing but a dream for a few warhawk federalists.

[Axeman]

Only Brits and Canadians claim that conquest of British North America was an objective of the US. In reality, the US' goal was to enforce its maritime rights and force withdrawal of British troops from the west. Both of these goals were achieved. The conquest of Canada was nothing but a dream for a few warhawk federalists.

QFT

[Last Roman]

Only Brits and Canadians claim that conquest of British North America was an objective of the US .

It was a goal of the US. The Americans believed that they were to liberate Canada from the oppressive British (despite that the clear majority wished to stay with Britain) Jefferson even commented on the conquest of Canada, stating that it would "be as easy as marching in" However, the war started to end British impressment of American sailors, but it is quite clear that the Americans had an eye fixed on Canada.

...hey, whadda know, my British Empire history class actually came in handy!

As to who won the war, I'd say it was a stalemate. The US ended British interference in American shipping, and the British/Canadians all but totally ended the idea of the conquest of Canada.

[Justice and Mercy]

The Americans wanted to conquer all of the British colonies that still existed in North America.

Oh, is that what they're teaching you?

The idea that one cause of the war was American expansionism or desire for Canadian land was much discussed among historians before 1940, but is rarely cited by experts any more. Some Canadian historians propounded the notion in the early 20th century, and it survives among Canadians.

Hell, I haven't even heard a British person argue that before.

The conquest of Canada was nothing but a dream for a few warhawk federalists.

That's why not a single Federalist voted to declare war? The Federalists, being the dolts they were, weren't willing to defend the freedom of their own citizens as is the proper role of government.



As for the war itself, maybe the Brits shouldn't have been forcing US sailors on merchant ships to fight on their ships, hmm? The attempt to conquer Canada was an attempt to gain a bargaining chip.

EDIT: As for the outcome of the war, the Americans won even though they fought the war incredibly poorly. They accomplished their goal of ending the impressment of Americans onto British navy ships.

[Last Roman]

They accomplished their goal of ending the impressment of Americans onto British navy ships.

and totally failed in their conquest of Canada (which was more than just an attempt to get a "bargaining chip")

[Justice and Mercy]

and totally failed in their conquest of Canada (which was more than just an attempt to get a "bargaining chip")

Why? Because the British say so?

[Last Roman]

Why? Because the British say so?

no, because every history professor I've had (ie, Americans) have said so.

[Justice and Mercy]

no, because every history professor I've had (ie, Americans) have said so.

And how did they know this?

[Eupholi]

Oh, is that what they're teaching you?

Have you ever heard of something called the Manifest Destiny.

From Wikipedia:

Manifest Destiny is the belief that the United States was destined to expand from the Atlantic seaboard to the Pacific Ocean. Sometimes Manifest Destiny was interpreted so widely as to include the eventual absorption of all North America: Canada, Mexico, Cuba and Central America.

I guess my teacher uses the second interpretation.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Impressment ended together, and mostly due to the Napoleonic Wars. The war was a complete stalemate from start and nothing was gained, except for a certain sense of patriotism in Canada.

[Erebus Pasha]

The war was a stalemate - the British were unable to make inroads into the American hinterland whilst the Americans were unable to take Canada. Threads like this have come up a thousand times and usually end up with the usual amount of dickwaving from both sides.

[Erebus Pasha]

Because it was a fact of the war otherwise Canada would be part of the USA.

[Archaalen]

War of 1812 was stupid war for the US to get involved in in the first place, we could have been destroyed if the British weren't so busy dealing with Napoleon. Had it happened at any other time, the US would be part of Canada! Since we managed to survive the conflict intact, people call it a win for us, even though it was more like a draw in the strategic sense.

[Icefrisco]

Conquering Canada was probably not a serious goal. In the end William Henry Harrison invaded Canada but America gave up all the land he conquered. If America really wanted Canada, we wouldn't have given big chuncks of it back. Also, after it became apparent to the federal government that New Yorkers would not participate in the invasion of Canada, they most likely understood that they did not have the manpower necessary to capture and hold Canada.

Its veyr hard to say who won the war since neither side had any clear goals.

[Erebus Pasha]

The US didn't hold huge chunks of Canada like you have stated but merely made limited gains like the British did in US territory. The best the Americans achieved was burning York.

[Henricus Rex]

Wow, this topic is a bit more heated than I expected. I'd just like to chime in and point out that, as an American student, I've essentially gotten two different impressions out of the war.

The first was the High School level view (well, actually all of grade school) that, basically, it was a tie. The failed invasion of Canada and the burning of Washington are held in balance with the victory at New Orleans and the occasional victories at sea. This view, of course, is in keeping with the whitewashed history you see at this level.

On the college level, naturally, professors are much more frank. We got beaten pretty handily. The war was a bad idea to begin with and we bungled much of it. It sharply divided the nation and led to one of the first real threats of secession, in this case by the Northern states. In the long run it didn't serve as a significant setback, though. It's also worth noting that the defeat of Native American allies of the British during the war facilitated expansion into the Old Northwest, so from that perspective there were some positive things for the US that came out of the war. Maybe that, as much as the final victory at New Orleans, explains the way the war was ended in high spirits and a sentiment of victory. Who knows?

[[SVK]Jakob]

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=R5gtLF3IWhU

[Dr. Croccer]

Haven't you heard yet? There are no American lost wars, only ''feigned retreats after ''objectives'' have been achieved''.

[MadBurgerMaker]

It seems we need to settle this once and for all. Remember, peaceloving Canadian citizens....It's for your own good. You must be liberated from the tyrannical oppression of your current socialist government and the shadowy influence of the imperialist pigdog scum in the UK. All will be well.

War Plan Red: Reactivated.