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Thread: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

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  1. #1

    Default Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    JERUSALEM – Israeli police rushed into one of Christianity's holiest churches Sunday and arrested two clergyman after an argument between monks erupted into a brawl next to the site of Jesus' tomb.

    The clash between Armenian and Greek Orthodox monks broke out in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, revered as the site of Jesus' crucifixion, burial and resurrection.

    The brawling began during a procession of Armenian clergymen commemorating the 4th-century discovery of the cross believed to have been used to crucify Jesus.

    The Greeks objected to the march without one of their monks present, fearing that otherwise, the procession would subvert their own claim to the Edicule — the ancient structure built on what is believed to be the tomb of Jesus — and give the Armenians a claim to the site.

    The Armenians refused, and when they tried to march the Greek Orthodox monks blocked their way, sparking the brawl.

    Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said police were forced to intervene after fighting was reported. They arrested two monks, one from each side, he said.

    A bearded Armenian monk in a red-and-pink robe and a black-clad Greek Orthodox monk with a bloody gash on his forehead were both taken away in handcuffs after scuffling with dozens of riot police.

    Six Christian sects divide control of the ancient church. They regularly fight over turf and influence, and Israeli police are occasionally forced to intervene.

    "We were keeping resistance so that the procession could not pass through ... and establish a right that they don't have," said a young Greek Orthodox monk with a cut next to his left eye.

    The monk, who gave his name as Serafim, said he sustained the wound when an Armenian punched him from behind and broke his glasses.

    Father Pakrat of the Armenian Patriarchate said the Greek demand was "against the status quo arrangement and against the internal arrangement of the Holy Sepulcher." He said the Greeks attacked first.

    Archbishop Aristarchos, the chief secretary of the Greek Orthodox patriarchate, denied his monks initiated the violence.

    After the brawl, the church was crowded with Israeli riot police holding assault rifles, standing beside Golgotha, where Jesus is believed to have been crucified, and the long smooth stone marking the place where tradition holds his body was laid out.

    The feud is only one of a bewildering array of rivalries among churchmen in the Holy Sepulcher.

    The Israeli government has long wanted to build a fire exit in the church, which regularly fills with thousands of pilgrims and has only one main door, but the sects cannot agree where the exit will be built.

    A ladder placed on a ledge over the entrance sometime in the 19th century has remained there ever since because of a dispute over who has the authority to take it down.

    More recently, a spat between Ethiopian and Coptic Christians is delaying badly needed renovations to a rooftop monastery that engineers say could collapse.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081109/...brawling_monks



    Exemplary conduct from some of Christ's most ancient followers....

    Last edited by ivan_the_terrible; November 10, 2008 at 04:14 AM. Reason: Added picture

  2. #2
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    OMG...
    As a Greek and an Orthodox I have to say that I'm not proud of this.

    And a question: Armenians are Orthodox Christians?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Even infront of a place made holy by their prophet it takes little before they will display the most primative human behavior.

  4. #4
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    I blame violent video games.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  5. #5

    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    I blame violent video games.
    Seconded.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

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  6. #6
    Erwin Rommel's Avatar EYE-PATCH FETISH
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Skinna View Post
    Seconded.
    Assassin's Creed to be exact, is the culprit here.

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  7. #7
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    This is what happens thanks to the whacky agreement the Ottomans set us up with: dividing the time for worship for the different churches with rights in an awkward way, assigning nonsensical parts of churches to different churches (as in: the floor of one half of the church is Greek. But the ceiling of that half, Armenian??), and the list goes on and on.

    An israeli police chief can be quoted swearing he'd shut down our seminary there and deport all the seminarians. So it doesn't help the Jews don't want us there to begin with. (you may find, in a Jewish online magazine thing, an article detailing how rabbis of the yeshiva either condone or says nothing against the harassment of Christians, specifically priests, by Yeshiva students, a common occurrence.)
    Though it isn't like the Muslims don't do their part either.

    It's a hostile environment that produces things like this.

    In a video concerning this most recent thing (it's not as though it's too too rare...) I recognized a good many of our (Armenian) seminarians.

    edit: ACTUALLY I recognize the one being walked away (in the pinkish robes) towards the end of the video in that link.

    edit again: I should also note that I know both parties are not looking for fights. Both make an active effort to make sure confrontations don't escalate, but just like with everything else, it doesn't always work. I think violence like this is very uncommon and happens only every couple of years even.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by John I Tzimisces View Post
    This is what happens thanks to the whacky agreement the Ottomans set us up with: dividing the time for worship for the different churches with rights in an awkward way, assigning nonsensical parts of churches to different churches (as in: the floor of one half of the church is Greek. But the ceiling of that half, Armenian??), and the list goes on and on.


    Bravo John, you made it Ottomans' fault. I wonder, when you smack your foot to a little rock on the road, do you find it also Ottomans' fault?
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  9. #9
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by white-wolf View Post


    Bravo John, you made it Ottomans' fault. I wonder, when you smack your foot to a little rock on the road, do you find it also Ottomans' fault?
    To be fair it's our fault we haven't made any new agreements since oh 1920 on the damn place. I don't know why you should get so offended, the whole process was terribly corrupt, with various churches attempting to bribe ottoman officials or using connections to get what they wanted.

    In any case,
    The rights of the Armenian Orthodox in the Holy Places have been granted in a Firman, Al Hijrah 1245 (1829). It stipulates that "no interference or intervention should ever be allowed to occur in respect of the celebration of mass and other processions of the [Armenian] community".
    So, get on that, Greeks.

  10. #10
    clandestino's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Orthodoxy kick ass, instead petting little kids as some other priests, our monks enjoy in occasional fistfights.
    join the light side of the Force: Kosovo is Serbia
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  11. #11
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by clandestino View Post
    Orthodoxy kick ass, instead petting little kids as some other priests, our monks enjoy in occasional fistfights.
    I guess that's better... :hmmm:

  12. #12
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by John I Tzimisces View Post
    I guess that's better... :hmmm:
    Our monks can pwn your monks any time.


    Anyway, the sheer idiocy of the whole affair is mind numbing. It demonstrates, in no uncertain terms, that the lack of a proper coffee shop in the vicinity where differences can be solved over backgammon, can be detrimental to ecclesiastic politics.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar View Post
    Our monks can pwn your monks any time.

    You're just lucky the Russian monks weren't there

  14. #14
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar View Post
    Our monks can pwn your monks any time.


    Anyway, the sheer idiocy of the whole affair is mind numbing. It demonstrates, in no uncertain terms, that the lack of a proper coffee shop in the vicinity where differences can be solved over backgammon, can be detrimental to ecclesiastic politics.
    Truth. There's a nice one in the Armenian quarter if everyone else can pull themselves from the Christian quarter which is so utterly desperate to sell you useless crap

    Quote Originally Posted by ivan_the_terrible View Post
    You're just lucky the Russian monks weren't there
    Or the 500 Russian pilgrims they always have in tow

  15. #15
    clandestino's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Occasional is the key word...
    join the light side of the Force: Kosovo is Serbia
    Fight for the creation of new Serbian Empire


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  16. #16
    MasterInquisitor's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    It's a shame really. All Christians follow the same God, so why can't we just worship together peacefully?
    Quote Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterInquisitor View Post
    It's a shame really. All Christians follow the same God, so why can't we just worship together peacefully?
    Kicking ass for the Lord is one of the oldest traditions of Christianity.

  18. #18
    helmersen's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithie View Post
    Kicking ass for the Lord is one of the oldest traditions of Christianity.
    Im a protestant, and I must say, Im proud of the ass-kicking experience christians have! Be it catholic, orthodox or protestant!
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithie View Post
    Kicking ass for the Lord is one of the oldest traditions of Christianity.
    Judaism and Islam, sure, but Christianity? :hmmm:

    Also Armenia and Greece are brothers, in all their feudin fightaen fame. So c'mon guys, band together. Your real enemy is the Copts!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Unorthodox Behavior - Monks Fight in Jerusalem

    ...religion!?

    A ladder placed on a ledge over the entrance sometime in the 19th century has remained there ever since because of a dispute over who has the authority to take it down.
    ...nuff said

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