Macedonia

[ro6ertj]

Hi, Playing RTRPE, I am looking for a Macedonia fix, one that evens them up a little, I found one once but cannot finad it again, any ideas where it may be?

Many Thanks in advance.

[lelouchx99]

You mean the one that fix Macedon's troop cost?

[Quinn Inuit]

Fixing Macedon has actually been very difficult. With a set of map tweaks, win condition tweaks, troop cost changes, and a reduction of trade income for the entire area of modern Greece, we've managed to make Macedon behave better maybe 2/3 of the time. Removing the Wonders is next on the list.

[Delvecchio1975]

if you're looking for an easy one in RTRPE that worked quite well for me, is double the cost of training units for them (not maintenance). It gives the Greeks a chance to grow early on and give the Macedonians a proper fight. Macedonians will still expand, but at a slower rate...

[ro6ertj]

Hi, new to this, how can I do this?
Do I have to mod a file, if so please help.
Would this be the same file to reduce the Phalanx?
Thanks

[AqD]

You can reduce the unit number of all phalanx and hoplite units from 60 to 45. And for hoplites also remove "light_spear" attribute and give them +2 or +3 attack. It will help AI to act more normally.

In current RTR, Hellenistic army could always beat everyone else because 20 units of 240-men elite pikemen are unbeatable in auto-resolved battle.

[Pat89]

The number 240 is based on a realistic number... and that number is 240

(my source is HamilcarBarca, though I might have remembered some things wrong... But about the number I'm sure)

[AqD]

The number 240 is based on a realistic number... and that number is 240

(my source is HamilcarBarca, though I might have remembered some things wrong... But about the number I'm sure)

Yeah 240 is real. But we don't have unlimited unit numbers in army or unlimited men-per-unit do we? If the unit size in game has to have anything to do with unit size in real world, what about a gallic tribe with 1,000 men per unit? I'd suggest to mod all unit size based on their overall strength for the sake of balanced campaign and AI & gameplay, i.e. weaker unit class = larger unit size.

[Quinn Inuit]

Why does removing light_spear help them act more normally?

[mcantu]

Why does removing light_spear help them act more normally?

i dont think it does. making elite units smaller may help though...

[Gromovnik]

I also have a question about Macedonia: why are the general's bodyguards always in wedge formation? Why don't we have a choice on that?

[Quinn Inuit]

That's a mistake in the formations file, and you can't fix it because a unit can only have one usable special ability and the general's ability overrides the wedge one in the UI. I think I've fixed that in the ExRM--somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. If you want, you can just use our formations file and delete the unused factions for RTRPE.

[Gromovnik]

O.K. thanks.

[Pat89]

i dont think it does. making elite units smaller may help though...

You can trust him...

He's one of the best unit stat balancers in the world

[Quinn Inuit]

No argument here.

So, I should remove light_spear from all phalanx units? What about hoplite units, which in the ExRM have neither phalanx nor shield_wall?

Also, when I remove light_spear, should I up their attack bonus or should I give them a higher spear_bonus?

[mcantu]

i'd still like to hear why removing light_spear will make the AI 'act more normally'...

[AqD]

It doesn't seem to make difference in autoresolved battles. But in real battle light_spear screws all units in close combat. so it creates a weird balance problem between campaign and battle.

I think it's better to give +2 or +3 against horse/camel, but I really have no idea how to make them anything realistic (I posted many problems there but nobody answered )

[mcantu]

ok, i read thread you linked to. it seems like light_spear is working as intended and i dont see those things you mentioned as being problems that need fixing. its difficult though to judge without knowing the units being tested...

[AqD]

ok, i read thread you linked to. it seems like light_spear is working as intended and i dont see those things you mentioned as being problems that need fixing. its difficult though to judge without knowing the units being tested...

They're big problems regarding realism. The current hoplites are completely unrealistic in RTW. They either fight in macedonian phalanx, or as ordinary spearmen just like gallic warband due to the lack of a true hoplite phalanx.

It's not related to the topic though. Macedonian army in fact works better. With some tweaking on unit size and secondary HP, AI would use more light troops and balanced army, and they would no longer be unstoppable.

[Quinn Inuit]

A few things:
1) Why is the current pushing a problem? That's what hoplites did. Would you recommend removing it from non-hoplite units, though?
2) Hoplites do _not_ fight in a spear warband style. That's what short_pike is for in hoplite units. The hoplite line is much more organized.
3) Why not just remove light_spear if it's bugging you and replace it with the appropriate spear_bonus?
4) Personally, I like the automatic bonus vs. cav and negative vs. swordsmen that light_spear provides.