Israel Army Abuse

[Grof]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7715861.stm

The Israeli military is investigating a video in which a Palestinian detainee appears to be humiliated by a group of Israeli soldiers.

But a leading Israeli human rights group says "many instances of abuse are not exposed because they have become the norm".

So this is the freedom defending Israeli army

[Heinz Guderian]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7715861.stm


So this is the freedom defending Israeli army

video evidence is always the most powerful. There is a charity group that hands out free video cameras to palestinian civillians to record war crimes. Much better than trying to smuggle weapons to them. But it must be stressed there are heads in every army. I dont think all Israeli soldeirs are like this.

[mrmouth]

it must be stressed there are heads in every army. I dont think all Israeli soldeirs are like this.

Indeed.

Despite what some believe, Israel has the most comprehensive approach to human rights during initial training. And it is stressed all through a persons time in the IDF. Every day at least one hour is spent going over different situations in which young IDF soldiers are expected to respond correctly.

The Israelis know better than anyone, what negative publicity brings. On their end, there really isn't much more they can do. Given the incredibly difficult circumstances, its fairly amazing you don't see more things like this.

Your average IDF soldier has to contend with radicalized settlers, young kids throwing rocks and stones, and of course the threat of suicide and conventional attacks by radical Palestinian groups. They operate in town and cities where Israelis and Palestinians are still next door neighbors. Where they must police settlers against attacking Palestinians. They serve in areas where they are attacked every day by both sides.

I have family in the IDF, and I have visited Israel. Its an incredibly difficult situation. I'm not trying to argue in defense of Israel when it comes to things like this, just trying to add some fact and perspective.

[danzig]

So this is the freedom defending Israeli army

Well unless the entire Israeli army was there doing it your comments on it should be limited to the soldiers themselves accused of the abuse.

[Erik]

Well unless the entire Israeli army was there doing it your comments on it should be limited to the soldiers themselves accused of the abuse.

The OP also states that these kind of things are the norm.
Which means, yes, pretty much the entire Israeli army does it.

[Henry of Grosmont]

The OP also states that these kind of things are the norm.
Which means, yes, pretty much the entire Israeli army does it.

Rrrrright.
And all Germans are Nazis.
Great logic.

[Erik]

Rrrrright.
And all Germans are Nazis.
Great logic.

Never said "all".
Not all Nazi's were bad people either.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize their organization.

[Phileas Fogg]

Funny that you call an abuse by a number of soldiers "Israel military abuse". This soldiers should put into jail anyway. I don't really get the point in posting the article about it and opening an entire thread about it.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

"An entire thread"? He didn't just have a rally.

Anyway, yes, the Israeli army has been persecuting Palestinians for yonks, and its arguable that the same can be said in reverse. As Heinz said, recently aid groups have been arming people with cameras, and the footage of some of the random, unprovoked attacks on Palestinians is pretty horrendous.

[Phileas Fogg]

Anyway, yes, the Israeli army has been persecuting Palestinians for yonks

What is your basis?

random, unprovoked attacks on Palestinians is pretty horrendous.

And very rare.

[Gauvin]

They shouldn't be put into jail... verbal abuse is an offense that warrants a dishonourable discharge, but it's not a criminal offense.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

And very rare.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldN...58018920080622
http://www.dci-pal.org/english/displ...8&CategoryId=1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/oct/22/israel1
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-u...homes-20080214

[Phileas Fogg]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL2258018920080622
http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=798&CategoryId=1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/oct/22/israel1
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/feature-stories/israeli-army-destroys-palestinian-homes-20080214

And these cases are very rare. By the way, the title "Israeli military continues to torture Palestinian children" is horribly misleading, and probably false anyway [as the Palestinian organizations are known for inventing events].

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Phileas, do you mind doing us the favour of sourcing your own claims after asking for sources for my own? It's only polite.

[Phileas Fogg]

Phileas, do you mind doing us the favour of sourcing your own claims after asking for sources for my own? It's only polite.

It isn't really needed to prove that abuses are rare by giving you a website that claims they are rare, as the fact that there are very few abuses - prove my point.

The OP also states that these kind of things are the norm.

It does state so, but I wonder what are the evidences this organization is basing itself on.

[Erik]

It isn't really needed to prove that abuses are rare by giving you a website that claims they are rare, as the fact that there are very few abuses - prove my point.

There are loads of complains about abuses from JEWISH human rights groups.
It's just that the Israeli officials never investigates them.

[Mithie]

Well look - since the Israelis are supposedly an ally of the western world and should share the west's views on human rights and proper conduct, then the mantle of morality is on them.

This means every little mistake they make in this arena is amplified tenfold in the media and popular opinion (and rightfully so) and so it would be in Israel's best interest to be cautious about this kind of behavior.

[Mithie]

It isn't really needed to prove that abuses are rare, as the fact that there are very few abuses - prove my point.

There shouldn't be abuses at all.

Period.

[Phileas Fogg]

There shouldn't be abuses at all.

Yes. And what do you want the Israeli military to do about it?

[Mithie]

Yes. And what do you want the Israeli military to do about it?

BLUGBGHBLUBHG... act like they give a ?

That'd be a good start, wouldn't it?

Don't even have to actually do anything about it. Just... pretend to give a . You know - kind of like what the US did with Abu Gharib.

Look - we both know this is a media war, and it's really not about the actual abuses. Israel is allied with the west. Therefore, there are certain moral expectations she has to inherit. Any failings here make ALL her western allies look bad and lose face on the world stage, and it's only a matter of instances before a critical mass is reached and the media begin to fully demonize the Israeli effort.

So either try to put a suppression on the discovery of these abuses and violations (maybe with better and more subtle media blackout and press censoring), or pretend like you give a and get on the soapbox to make some speeches. America and Europe don't really care about the actual incidents or their frequency, as long as we don't find out. Once it's out in the open, it becomes very difficult for the west to manage on the world stage, especially when pushing human rights on eastern and middle-eastern countries.