Saddam Hussein and the Fatal Mistake

[Justinian]

As demonized and hated as the man was, as cruel and iron-fisted a dictator he was, and as many atrocities he committed against the Iraqi people, one fact remains. There is a reason that he was the "president" of Iraq, its brutal leader who had the country completely and utterly under control. That reason is because he was a smart, vicious bastard who knew how to rule.

I think Saddam Hussein was the only person in the world Khomeini and Iran was afraid of. Iraq and Iran have always hated eachother, for as long as Sunni and Shi'ite hated eachother. We forget that the Iran-Iraq War, which ended only 20 years ago, is still remembered by a lot of people. Hussein got Iraq through that war and kept the balance of power stable.

"President Ronald Reagan decided that the United States "could not afford to allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran", and that the United States "would do whatever was necessary to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran."" One of the best presidents we've had in recent memory knew that we couldn't let Iran win. Nor could we let Iraq win. Those two countries have to balance eachother and remain in stalemate.

In the days to come, we are going to miss Saddam Hussein and we're going to wish we never got involved, because the United States has made promises it can't keep and there will be big repercussions. We are in a war that we have to end, and when we end it, it is very likely that Iran will invade Iraq, and when that happens the atrocities committed will make Hussein look like an angelic baby.

If the United States fights Iran, Iran will win. Obama has a long, hard road ahead of him in the Middle East.

[Mikelus Trento]

In the days to come, we are going to miss Saddam Hussein and we're going to wish we never got involved, because the United States has made promises it can't keep and there will be big repercussions. We are in a war that we have to end, and when we end it, it is very likely that Iran will invade Iraq, and when that happens the atrocities committed will make Hussein look like an angelic baby.

I think the world's response to such an invasion would be the same as it was in Kuwait. It will not stand. And in fact the justification such an invasion gives to removing the Iranian nuclear potential would profoundly influence the Iranian risk/reward analysis.

And if they think having Obama as president allows them such freedom they are in for a big surprise. Just like Saddam found out.

Highly unlikely. They can accomplish much much more by using proxies.

[Sphere]

We are in a war that we have to end, and when we end it, it is very likely that Iran will invade Iraq, and when that happens the atrocities committed will make Hussein look like an angelic baby.

I think this is a theory that will get tossed into the waste-bin along with the "Domino theory".

If you think the Sunni regions are difficult for US forces to control, just think of the trouble Iran would have. The Iranian leaders are no fools, they know that they could not hope for any form of succsess in a war agaisnt Iraq. If there is any notion that unites and gives identity to Iraqis it is their opposition to Persians. Calling someone persian is an insult to shia and sunni alike.

There are real concerns surrounding a US withdrawl, but an Iranian invasion is not one of them.

[Justinian]

There are real concerns surrounding a US withdrawl, but an Iranian invasion is not one of them.

Two soldiers who served in Iraq, one American and one coalition, tell me otherwise.

[Justinian]

Iran is much stronger than Iraq. I don't think we could beat them in a ground war.

[Mikelus Trento]

Iran is much stronger than Iraq. I don't think we could beat them in a ground war.

Does the expression "death from above" change your perspective?

[The Dude]

Iran is much stronger than Iraq. I don't think we could beat them in a ground war.

This would be a war in which the NATO would present itself, not just the United States. Western society would have to step up in defense of Iraqi democracy in such a case and help the people out.

Iran could never beat a joint NATO operation.

[Dunecat]

Iran will not invade Iraq. Their leadership is not that stupid and their populace would not stand for it.

No doubt they have invested interest in Iraq, and will be meddling there, but invasion? HA- no.

[danzig]

Iran is much stronger than Iraq. I don't think we could beat them in a ground war.

Um seriously? Even in the whatif scenario here of Iran being an aggresor moving into Iraq? They would be crushed, completely and totally...the one thing the US is absolutely better at then anyone in the world is ripping apart an actual army of the enemy. This isnt the 1970s Vietnam anymore and the little whatif here isnt a Vietnam type war but an Iranian aggression....they would be crushed in such a situation.

[Justinian]

Because that strategy worked really well in Vietnam, right?

[Mikelus Trento]

Are you honestly saying you believe that the United States alone, without even considering the UN support such overt agression would give, is not capable of removing Iran from Iraq?

We will have to agree to disagree on this one I guess.

[king spartacus]

Because that strategy worked really well in Vietnam, right?

umm in Vietnam they hid in tunnels to survive the air attacks.That would be slightly harder to build tunnels in open deserts where satellites can see such an building task than in the jungles of Vietnam.

[Sidmen]

Iran is much stronger than Iraq. I don't think we could beat them in a ground war.

You'd be surprised what the largest arsenal of Modern Battle tanks, complete control of the skies, and a very nationalistic (and anti-iran) Iraqi populace can accomplish.

While I'd admit invading Iran would be harder than Iraq, it wouldn't be a problem to defend Iraq from Iran.

[Aetius]

Justinian, the United States military is (dare I say) invincible in traditional warfare. If the Iranians foolishly attempted to invade Iraq, it would be probably the greatest thing that could happen for the United States in the region.

Firstly, the Iranian military would get annihalated. The combination of the Iraqi ground force numbers and the embedded American military prescence in the region would assure victory.

Once we win, Iraqi's would look far more favorably towards the Americans for our aid, and I think the path to unification would be much easier.


I dare Iran to invade Iraq. I double dare them. Outside threats unite people greater than anything.

[Justinian]

the embedded American military prescence in the region would assure victory


I dare Iran to invade Iraq. I double dare them.

I'm referring to after we have completely pulled our military out of Iraq.

[Aetius]

I'm referring to after we have completely pulled our military out of Iraq.

Lol, we are never leaving as long as their is oil to be protected.

[HorseArcher]

There won't be a war with Iran.

Silent takeover of power by others? yeah. Well, how silent it will be, depends on the Iranians.

[Mikelus Trento]

Lol, we are never leaving as long as their is oil to be protected.

Totally gone in 16 months. So sayeth the prophet....err President Obama, Praise be Unto Him.

And if we were there for the oil we would have just conquered them permanently.

[Bongfu]

Justinian, the United States military is (dare I say) invincible in traditional warfare. If the Iranians foolishly attempted to invade Iraq, it would be probably the greatest thing that could happen for the United States in the region.

Firstly, the Iranian military would get annihalated. The combination of the Iraqi ground force numbers and the embedded American military prescence in the region would assure victory.

Once we win, Iraqi's would look far more favorably towards the Americans for our aid, and I think the path to unification would be much easier.


I dare Iran to invade Iraq. I double dare them. Outside threats unite people greater than anything.

Your patriotism is noted.

Look at Japan during WWII. They were fighting the "mighty" US marines, but the toll they took on America was ghastly. They were using outdated weapons that they carried through long campaigns in China and the Pacific. Battle-hardened, highly-disciplined and single minded, the Japanese soldier was a major force to be reckoned with.

Iran today has one of the less funded militaries in the Middle East, but it is no stranger to war. You forget they still have veterans from the Iraq-Iran war. They are using both pretty modern U.S. and Soviet equipment. They have submarines, they have a fleet, their Air Force could actually do some damage.

What it comes down to is there would be the kind of state of mind the Japanese were in during their Imperialistic age. Every civilian is indoctrinated into serving the country for the greater good, and in this case, hating America. If the entire populace of a large city rising against your military in arms does not scare you, then I invite you for a free psychiatric exam.

The fact of the matter is Iran is a real threat to stability in the Middle East. A spark from them could potentially set off the other Arab countries into a frenzy of land grab.

Frankly I do not think the U.S. has the resources or the allies at this point to stop Iranian aggression. Even if our new president tries to restore our image, people around the world are tired of this war.

[Rapax]

Look at Japan during WWII. They were fighting the "mighty" US marines, but the toll they took on America was ghastly. They were using outdated weapons that they carried through long campaigns in China and the Pacific. Battle-hardened, highly-disciplined and single minded, the Japanese soldier was a major force to be reckoned with.

Iran today has one of the less funded militaries in the Middle East, but it is no stranger to war. You forget they still have veterans from the Iraq-Iran war. They are using both pretty modern U.S. and Soviet equipment. They have submarines, they have a fleet, their Air Force could actually do some damage.

I'm afraid you are severely misjudging the capabilities of the US military and how modern warfare works.
In a potential war, the US military is the battle-hardened one, Iran's air force is no threat and even the most fanatic of soldiers can not stand against total enemy air superiority in the age of precision guided munitions.
Keep in mind though, this is about potential Iranian aggression, no one wants to invade and occupy Iran at this point.