muslims ...

[MaryQueenofScots]

iv played this game for months and months and months, and although im not bored of, im starting to be ... there is much more in the game i have not tried, ie muslim factions ... but if im honest, i dont like them, hate the look, the fact there not christian, all horsey and archers which is not my play stlye

anyone else avoid playing muslims or am i missing out on fun times not playing them ?

[Gorrrrrn]

MQoS

yes you are missing out on lots of fun.

See if you can keep a Kwarezmian empire flourishing and fight off the Mongols when they arrive (in early era) or maybe take over the Fatimids and fight off the crusaders.

[TheLastPrivate]

Muslims in Stainless Steel aren't as "touched on" by the developers as other western factions. Whenever I feel bored of knights and spears and shiny everything I go play BC because face it, the muslims, even Kwarezmians, are so-so compared to the changes/overhauls the western factions got.
Currently the horse archers are terrible with low damage, lack of armour-piercing skirmishers that historically mowed down armoured crusader troops (I think the new RR might be able to address that, we'll have to wait and see), and no way to resupply arrows (horse archers would restock via supply wagons protected by infantry), and terrible stamina in general.

Only reason Fatimids appear so strong is the early bodyguard with armored horses and ability to mass 4x times the quantity of troops compared to everyone else in the early period due to rich and highly populated cities.

But by the time heavy armor comes along with elite bowmen the "best" fatimid stack will have hard time beating the "best" western stack. Of course the game isn't balanced stack by stack basis, but you get the picture.

[Gnostiko]

Muslims in Stainless Steel aren't as "touched on" by the developers as other western factions. Whenever I feel bored of knights and spears and shiny everything I go play BC because face it, the muslims, even Kwarezmians, are so-so compared to the changes/overhauls the western factions got.
Currently the horse archers are terrible with low damage, lack of armour-piercing skirmishers that historically mowed down armoured crusader troops (I think the new RR might be able to address that, we'll have to wait and see), and no way to resupply arrows (horse archers would restock via supply wagons protected by infantry), and terrible stamina in general.

Qft, qft, and unfortunately, qft. No disrespect to the great SS modders out there, but it feels like the Islamic factions are the red-headed stepchildren of Medieval - nobody wants to work with them; the majority focus seems to be on western factions and pike/musket/late era combos. BC seems to swing the pendelum the other way. Granted, it's focus is supposed to be on the east and the crusades, but...nobody likes a gunpoint either/or situation.
*shrugs* I'm not a modder though, just a tweaker, so I suppose I just have to grin and bear it. Still, it would be nice to wish for something on the scale of Europa Barbarorum.

[MaryQueenofScots]

thanks for the response people, seems it touched a nerve

I dont think im gonna play any of them, i have less and less time these days to play im not gonna waste it on muslim factions

I just hope some modder out there can get to grips with them and give them a bit flavour, and if you manage to get me to play a muslim faction then you have done an ace job

[FastHeinz]

I used to play only western factions until I had to fight horse archers. Then I found out in SS that the most overpowered type of units is horse archers. Once you played it, you could never look at the western factions the same way. Heavy armor? All you got to do is flank and heavy infantry and cavalry will drop like flies.

In vanilla I could still counter horse archers with long range bowmen as horse archers have short range. Now? Horse archers win hands down. These are super units that kill everything. Flank, weaken, and charge. There is no defeat with them. There is only one draw back though, you have to do a lot of micro to be effective with them.

Muslim factions don't really interest me except the Mongols. So i have to settle for byzantine.

[Skooma Addict]

I used to play only western factions until I had to fight horse archers. Then I found out in SS that the most overpowered type of units is horse archers. Once you played it, you could never look at the western factions the same way. Heavy armor? All you got to do is flank and heavy infantry and cavalry will drop like flies.

In vanilla I could still counter horse archers with long range bowmen as horse archers have short range. Now? Horse archers win hands down. These are super units that kill everything. Flank, weaken, and charge. There is no defeat with them. There is only one draw back though, you have to do a lot of micro to be effective with them.

Muslim factions don't really interest me except the Mongols. So i have to settle for byzantine.

No!!!!!! Don't give up hope, not yet anyway. C'mon you know you want to try a muslim faction at least one more time right. Turks, do it!

[Point Blank]

I used to play only western factions until I had to fight horse archers. Then I found out in SS that the most overpowered type of units is horse archers. Once you played it, you could never look at the western factions the same way. Heavy armor? All you got to do is flank and heavy infantry and cavalry will drop like flies.

In vanilla I could still counter horse archers with long range bowmen as horse archers have short range. Now? Horse archers win hands down. These are super units that kill everything. Flank, weaken, and charge. There is no defeat with them. There is only one draw back though, you have to do a lot of micro to be effective with them.

Muslim factions don't really interest me except the Mongols. So i have to settle for byzantine.

Hmm, most people call them underpowered in plain SS6.1, see post #3 above: "Currently the horse archers are terrible with low damage, lack of armour-piercing skirmishers that historically mowed down armoured crusader troops (I think the new RR might be able to address that, we'll have to wait and see), and no way to resupply arrows (horse archers would restock via supply wagons protected by infantry), and terrible stamina in general."

Latest RR/RC as in my .sig has most skirmish-style HA shooting from 60m. They are very dangerous units but are also very very vulnerable to foot archers and crossbows. Long range missile-style HA that shoot an 'arrow'shower' rather than at individual targets have has their accuracy reduced.

[Point Blank]

Horse archers are much more dangerous in new RR/RC:

• About 1.5-2x the shooting rate as before
• Skirmisher HA shoot from only 60m with good accuracy and high-velocity arrows
• Skirmisher HA now have same damage as foot archers due to lighter but faster arrows having equivalent energy at that close range to heavier/slower arrows from foot archers
• Ammo stocks are typically 45
• Most HA unit sizes are now 80 on huge rather than 60. Mongols are 100
• HA will likely get an autoresolve boost using secondary mount hitpoints that don't impact combat on the battlemap
• Units on lighter horses get a heat factor advantage

They are dangerous to units with up to heavy mail, especially as mail armor types have -1 armor value but +1 defense, to simulate mail armor's vulnerability to missiles. Heavy cavalry that charges but does not contact them is extremely vulnerable. The HA will also in that case be able to counter-charge the disordered and halted heavy cav because their charge distance is only 20m (and they get an additional charge bonus for secondary weapons due to their fast mounts), versus 45m for most couched-lance cavalry. This mirrors their historical tactics. Some also use new 'Eastern Horse' type with good agility and speed but more mass than a fast pony.

Armored infantry will absorb a lot of arrows however.

[Lord Derfel]

Personally I am not that interested in playing a muslim faction. I prefer western factions with armored knights and strong infantry, being able to use princesses to forge alliances is also a nice touch which the muslim factions lack. They also lack a good mix of troops as most of there units are redundant spearman.

I have tried playing as the Fatamids and Kwarzmians, the Fatamids are too easy and the Kwarzmians are too far from everything and have a lot of land to cover. Plus I really enjoy Crusades against the holy land and the Fatimids usually put up a good fight.

[Skooma Addict]

Any one who finds the muslim factions uninteresting haven't played as the Turks.


EDIT: or you can always try BC

[TheLastPrivate]

Horse archers are much more dangerous in new RR/RC:

• About 1.5-2x the shooting rate as before
• Skirmisher HA shoot from only 60m with good accuracy and high-velocity arrows
• Skirmisher HA now have same damage as foot archers due to lighter but faster arrows having equivalent energy at that close range to heavier/slower arrows from foot archers
• Ammo stocks are typically 45
• Most HA unit sizes are now 80 on huge rather than 60. Mongols are 100
• HA will likely get an autoresolve boost using secondary mount hitpoints that don't impact combat on the battlemap
• Units on lighter horses get a heat factor advantage

They are dangerous to units with up to heavy mail, especially as mail armor types have -1 armor value but +1 defense, to simulate mail armor's vulnerability to missiles. Heavy cavalry that charges but does not contact them is extremely vulnerable. The HA will also in that case be able to counter-charge the disordered and halted heavy cav because their charge distance is only 20m (and they get an additional charge bonus for secondary weapons due to their fast mounts), versus 45m for most couched-lance cavalry. This mirrors their historical tactics. Some also use new 'Eastern Horse' type with good agility and speed but more mass than a fast pony.

Armored infantry will absorb a lot of arrows however.

I have a fresh installation of SS6.1 waiting for the complete 1.7

[Naked Emperor]

Yes, the Turks are great fun for archery lovers like me

[henyo10]

Yeah I noticed how HA's can't harass knights that well. How come??

[Copperknickers II]

iv played this game for months and months and months, and although im not bored of, im starting to be ... there is much more in the game i have not tried, ie muslim factions ... but if im honest, i dont like them, hate the look, the fact there not christian, all horsey and archers which is not my play stlye

anyone else avoid playing muslims or am i missing out on fun times not playing them ?

When i play SS, i avoid the Muslim factions like a plague. I love them, but they are so bad in comparison to BC there is no point playing them.

[Point Blank]

burningsoul: Depends who you talk to apparently

Stronger:

• Shoot much faster
• Skirmish HA hit harder at close range
• Some get stamina advantage

Weaker:

• Skirmish HA shoot from close, very vulnerable to other missile weapons
• Can take more micro-management to get the best from them
• Missile HA shoot 'arrow shower' with reduced accuracy

So it really depends how they are used, versus what type of opponents.

[frederickm]

Horse archers ftl, if you play Muslim, Egypt = mass heavy mamluks/ghulams with low quality auxilary sarharans and Turks = suffer early on with roster later on with elite Janissary gun powder army. Moors - idk never played moors. Kwarezmians- never played because they have pink

[TheLastPrivate]

What bugs me is that the Western factions and Eastern factions aren't too different in combat capability.
But as the game progresses Western knights can reach up to ridiculous amounts of defense (up to 27 with steel barding, plate armor and a shield) without sacrificing charge value AT ALL while Middle Eastern faction horse archers dmg stay the same, some mediocre upgrade in defense, same for heavy cavalry which lack armor and charge value (even the most elite units), and infantry far lacking compared to face pikes and footknights and ironclad xbows and so on.
The fact there is no Janissary infantry that can hold the line (turks only have 2hander version that are not mean to hold the battle line) or the fact that a lot of Kingdoms units were cut out from muslim rosters to make room for some "less necessary or diverse factions" just goes show how Middle Eastern factions are given close to no attention.

[Ahmed IV]

The only faction that I ever played and would play, would be Egypt (The Fatmid Caliphate).

So...

[Point Blank]

The super-heavy western cavalry was a response to battlefield conditions at the time, in particular the development of heavier and heavier crossbows. In fact, if you look closely at the stats, the heavier-lance armed cav suffers a reduced attack from these heavy and unwieldy weapons, which is typically obscured by the high quality of most such units. The charge value remains high because, though a heavier mount may move more slowly, more mass is brought to bear behind the point of the lance. These units were pretty much impervious to arrow fire and were best tackled with polearms, pikes and firearms.

The eastern factions simply fell behind when it came to the employment of such heavy cavalry and infantry, and never employed such armors for cost, technical and tactical (methods, environment) reasons. These factions also typically used smaller, lighter, and more agile horses. They are still quite lethal in hot climates, when armor upgraded, with a metallurgy improvement also. Heavy western units will cook in such climates.

Note that such faster mounts have an additional charge bonus for non-couched lances and secondary weapons, where such speed is useful.

But I agree with you that the muslim factions sould use some more TLC. There seems to be a bit of a lack of interest, which is unfortunate. Which units were cut from Kingdoms rosters, any that would be appropriate for inclusion? RR has some free slots. JaM's 1450 campaign is quite close to completion, would be nice to have new units for that.