hoplites>>>phalanx

[aznflea]

wtf why is the phalanx so weak? i had a custom battle where the weakest hoplites (the greek hoplites) with no upgrades went against phalangites with a full force attack from the front and they won. i didnt bother flanking or anything i just double clicked and the hoplites won.

being phalanxes. shouldnt they at least beat hoplites in a frontal assault? this was on perfectly level terrain. my hoplites on guard mode. if the phalanxes are this weak even at the front there is no point recruiting them because hoplites are just superior in every way except recruitment time and numbers.

[Stilgar CG]

Overall, phalanx in XGM is somewhat weaker than phalanx in vanilla, indeed. And, there are good reasons for that.
How deep was your phalanx? If phalangists stay in formation less than 4-5 ranks, there is a good chance that the formation will break. In such a case, phalangists will have to draw swords and will die pretty fast.
Have phalangists received the hoplites charge standing in phalanx in good order? If they received hoplites charge when still marching or still forming the phalanx up, then their casualties will be mounting fast and they would likely loose. Ignore that. Seems irrelevant in this case.
Greek Hoplites have decent attack stats, btw, and have better morale and stamina. Elite pahalngists can deal with Hoplites pretty well though .

Edit: Well, conditions of your test are not entirely clear. Who attacked whom? Hoplites attacked and were in guard mod at the same time? :hmmm: What level phalangists? The lowest level phalangists - levy phalangists - are pretty weak and will loose to hoplites in most cases. The main use of phalanx in XGM is to hold the line and pin the enemy down. Phalangists can kill, all right, but frontal assault is not their specialty.

[Zarax]

Do the same test using a phalanx and tell us who won...

[atraps]

In XGM the phalanx formation has been weaken in two ways. The lethality of the weapon has been decreased (meaning its not going to kill as often), and the formation of the unit with the phalanx ability is more spread out (meaning it is easier break through the phalanx).

This was done because in vanilla all you had to do was make a box out your phalanx units and wait for the enemy to throw itself on your spears and die. XGM tries to make you more offensive with your phalanx.

[rogergargantua]

I think the phalanx in XGM and XGM-diadochi are quite good.....once you know how to use em. I first thought they were weak too, but once you apply them correctly, they are a real deadly tool.....no matter the lowered stats they got.

[aznflea]

i got phalangites. the ones after militia phalangites.

no upgrades nthig. two groups just fought. seems to me that the only way that phalanx can be useful is in a siege

[Scutarii]

Phalanx should still beat hoplites with a frontal assault... Control the phalanx yourself and you'll find a more accurate result.

[TM Is Back]

Phalanx should still beat hoplites with a frontal assault... Control the phalanx yourself and you'll find a more accurate result.

I dont agree with that one. Holpites, when charging, break through the Phalanx of Levy, and normal Phalangites pretty easy.

When you attack them though, with your Phalanx, you win, as long as you keep the flanks of your Phalanx secured, for the hoplites will try to break the phalanx there.


As long as you use the Phalangites properly, they are a deadly tool. Use them as an anvil to pin the enemy down for exemple.

[Scutarii]

Your probably right, TM. Still, all that proves is don't under-support your phalanx (which is why the Maks lost in real life to the Romans), and you should be fine. Used as a single unit they might not be all that great, but as a long phalanx line w/ support they can be very effective.

[TM Is Back]

Your probably right, TM. Still, all that proves is don't under-support your phalanx (which is why the Maks lost in real life to the Romans), and you should be fine. Used as a single unit they might not be all that great, but as a long phalanx line w/ support they can be very effective.

And afcaurse, when you place 2 phalangites on top of each other, it is almost unbrakeble for everything that is not an Elite Phalangite..

[Sarpedon99]

With a line of 5 phalanx formed 8 deep with Thiorakitai and Therouphoi supporting on the wings and just a bit behind the phalanx line its pretty deadly. Now if you have some cavaly to wheel in behind you can take out most anything. Very rarely does anything get through the phalanx line.

[Kátz]

well here phalanx is great only in frontal defense.

[aznflea]

they can pin the enemy but the enemy can just withdraw a little.

the phalanx definitely needs to be stronger from the front. with such a weak defense, if it is not strong at the front, it loses so much value not just as a unit but the whole concept.

[RPK]

they can pin the enemy but the enemy can just withdraw a little.

That has yet to happen for me.

[aznflea]

me neither but im just stating the facts.

nvm about it, phalanx are vastly more powerful to hoplites in certain situations.