Duchy of Apulia & Duchy of Lower Lorraine ?

**SicilianVespers** · November 01, 2008, 05:31 PM

I need opinions....

What do you all think of adding the Crusaders (Jerusalem) as the Duchy of Lower Lorraine, and the Latins (Antioch), as the Duchy of Apulia, to the Early campaign?

They would in effect become the Principality of Antioch and Kingdom of Jerusalem.

We would need spawned crusades to assist the AI in actually making this happen, but it would be nice to play as Godfrey, Baldwin or Bohemund from the Start.

What do you think?

**DaVinci** · November 01, 2008, 08:11 PM

but it would be nice to play as Godfrey, Baldwin or Bohemund from the Start.

...for the human player, yes.
And the AI of those factions?

We would need spawned crusades to assist the AI in actually making this happen

-> That would rather need a 'Surrender' script that adds the respective settlements to those AI factions in the correct turns. As well it needs the character movement scripts for the crusade leaders.

**Gwyn ap Nud** · November 01, 2008, 08:13 PM

The Crusaders and the Latins don't already have factions for early?

Where is Apulia again? I can't remember for the life of me...

**DaVinci** · November 01, 2008, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nud

The Crusaders and the Latins don't already have factions for early?

Where is Apulia again? I can't remember for the life of me...

... the first crusade into the Levante was at 1096, and the first crusader state there has been proclaimed 1099. The Early era campaign starts at 1080. I think this gives an idea why there isn't already a Crusader State or Latins faction at the start.

Apulia is in the south-eastern part of the Italian boot.

**SicilianVespers** · November 02, 2008, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nud

The Crusaders and the Latins don't already have factions for early?

Not in early. They don't appear until the High campaign.

Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nud

Where is Apulia again? I can't remember for the life of me...

As DV mentioned it is in SE Italy. It was Robert Guiscard's duchy. Right now it is part of Sicily.

Another option is to just spawn the Kingdom of Jerusalem, but it wouldn't be playable.

**SimonB1er** · December 07, 2008, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by SicilianVespers

I need opinions....

What do you all think of adding the Crusaders (Jerusalem) as the Duchy of Lower Lorraine, and the Latins (Antioch), as the Duchy of Apulia, to the Early campaign?

They would in effect become the Principality of Antioch and Kingdom of Jerusalem.

We would need spawned crusades to assist the AI in actually making this happen, but it would be nice to play as Godfrey, Baldwin or Bohemund from the Start.

What do you think?

Is this been implented?

**SicilianVespers** · December 08, 2008, 06:14 AM

Not yet. I am working on reskinning and implementing the XAI BAI/CAI at the moment.

**SimonB1er** · December 08, 2008, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by SicilianVespers

Not yet. I am working on reskinning and implementing the XAI BAI/CAI at the moment.

But will it be eventually?

**SicilianVespers** · December 09, 2008, 06:13 AM

I am planning to add them to an alternate early era campaign. If all works out well, I will add them to the main early camapign.

**Emperor Basil** · December 09, 2008, 10:45 AM

The problem is that both duchies had nothing much to do with the Principality of Antioch or Kingdom of Jerusalem following their creation. Apulia was part of the Kingdom of Sicily and although had initially strong connections they were separate powers connected only through the fact of having the same ruler. Ruling Lorraine and Jerusalem shouldn't have been feasible at the time as well.
My only answer is a bold one that may not be possible or worth it, but hear me out. Would it be possible to have a player play as either Sicily or Lorraine and then in 1096 a crusade is called. At this point two new factions spawn and the AI heads off for Antioch and Jerusalem respectively. If a human player is playing as either Lorraine (possibly HRE) or Sicily then he gets a choice as to whether to become the spawned crusaders or stay as his original faction. Which ever he chooses the AI takes over the other.
How is this possible you might ask. Well rather than spawning them as separate factions you spawn them as linked like in RTW:BI with the rebel roman empires or the baron's alliance in Britannia campaign. The difficult bit would be implementing the choice. There are no examples I know of in M2TW or even RTW but in the original Medieval game there were civil wars when you got a choice between being the rebels and the legitimate line. I don't know enough to say when this is fool's gold or not but it would be great if it could work.

**SicilianVespers** · December 10, 2008, 06:32 AM

I was thinking along the same lines, but I was leaning more toward givine over their mainland provinces to Sicily or the HRE once a Outremer settlement is captured.

I will have to look at how CA did the Barons's alliance, and see what will work best.