SS Roman Empire (Byzantines) Discussion Thread

[King Sama]

First of all, the idea was from TheLastPrivate to make this, I am simply expanding it, and below are the rules that he specified. I decided to do the byzantine empire because it is very popular according to some polls, and I'm sure there are plenty of experienced Byzantine players who can share their wealth of knowledge. And it doesn't have to be a lot, even a small comment will do

"This will be the up-to-date strategy discussion thread for the Roman or Byzantine Empire of SS6.1.
You can post guides, unit tactics, build order, family maintenance, diplomacy moves, opening moves, merchant guides, settlement development, turn-by-turn analysis and anything else that has to do with the Byzantine campaign.

To keep this thread concise and informative please do not:
1. steer too far away from the game (ex: occasional history is cool but this is not a seminar )
2. rant/cheer other players - they belong in a new thread.
3. post other faction strategy - they should go to their respective threads. For new threads please contact me, since it would be nice if we could keep the format same for all the threads so that it may later be compiled easily.

** As you contribute please notify us of the submods/difficulty/version you are playing**

For other Strategy Discussion Threads, please refer to: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=200302 "

[TheLastPrivate]

In the SS6.1 roster (without CBUR), are vardariotais the perfect unit they were in Vanilla? I remember before the missle cavalry nerf I could wipe out Venice with 5 units of Vard and a general... :p

[Skooma Addict]

I wouldn't count on it. My varangian guard are a shell of their former selves. I could eat missile fire like candy with them with little to no losses before I eventually ate them.

[TheLastPrivate]

I would be contributing more if I can just start my CBUR byzntine campaign with zuma mod

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Okay....I kinda feel like a broken Record, but...If you play Byzantium, {my experience is only to turn 60 or so.} you should be right in the middle of the action cuz....Your at the "Crossroads"...

1. "The Great City" will receive multiple Jihads usually comprised of 4 t0 6 stacks.{The ones from The Shah really bring the pain!}

2. Crusaders' path finding gets screwed up{God help you if you blocked the straits with forts} and they go to war with you.

3. Sicily instead of taking Venice{city} and destroying the faction crosses the Adriatic in force to come after you.

4. Venice & Hungary without fail come after your pot of gold.

5. Ally with the other Orthodox Powers to cement the "Orthodox Alliance".

6. Conquer local rebels & hunker down the Fun will come to you.

I play with SS6.1 + Perfectly Polished 3.0. on M/M. There are Great Sub-mods that add extra spice to this wonderful faction. hope this helps...


No Worries ....

Mega

[Gnostiko]

1. "The Great City" will receive multiple Jihads usually comprised of 4 t0 6 stacks.{The ones from The Shah really bring the pain!}

I haven't made up my mind about the Khwarezmians yet. On the one hand, I like alliances with them - they're so far away they're not a threat for a very long time, and they tend to go to war with the Turks. But on the other hand they tend to throw down Jihads when I've done nothing to offend them.

2. Crusaders' path finding gets screwed up{God help you if you blocked the straits with forts} and they go to war with you.

I tend to get nervous when a crusade is called, and western factions pass through my territory...then the crusade city is taken, stranding armies in the Empire. Thankfully I've never had a betrayal from the stacks parked outside my cities...yet. If they have generals in them I tend to use them as training for my assassins

3. Sicily instead of taking Venice{city} and destroying the faction crosses the Adriatic in force to come after you.

Hmmm, that's an odd one, I've never had any gruff from the Normans before. Ahistorical, perhaps, but I favour alliances with them to curtail the power of Venice (ditto for Genoa).

4. Venice & Hungary without fail come after your pot of gold.

Hungary, I find, tend to be solid allies. They've never let me down once. Venice on the other hand. Grrrr, I despise them, even in games where they're 'friendly' with me I always, always thumb my nose at them by allying with Genoa.

5. Ally with the other Orthodox Powers to cement the "Orthodox Alliance"

Funny thing about Kiev is they're wishy-washy like the Khwarezmians. They should be your pals due to being coreligionists and all, but after agitating with the Seljuks I find they often compete with me for Asia Minor...so my favour tends to go Novgorod.


I suppose you can't rule out the Roman attitude of 'diplomacy is just as good as combat'. Oftentimes it's cheaper to ally with a traditional enemy's enemy: Genoa v Venice, Novgorod v Kiev, Khwarezm v Seljuks. Just make sure you don't stick too close to history and end up signing humiliating agreements.
The same can be said for all factions, but it's equally true for the Romans - always take advantage of diplomats, they make great agents provacateur, reconnoittering enemy territory and giving funds to mutual friends. Hell, it's historical too, seeing as how the Byzzies had the Bureau of Barbarians - the world's first intelligence service!

[OneArmedScissor]

Ally with Venice and the Turks.
Proceed to move north and take cities from Hungary and Kiev when the opportunities arrise.
Watch your southern territories because Egypt will probably attack you.

Just do what Basil II did and establish a heartland.

[frederickm]

Ally with Venice and the Turks.

To play Byzantium or any Greek faction for that matter and ally with the Turks would be a great insult.

[Stark of Winterfell]

I get Sofia fast, and ally with Hungary, and keep that alliance. I ally with Turks and Venetians until I get a footing, and then break those alliances once I can. After taking all of Greece, Crete, and Anatolia I move on to the Holy Land and try to wipe out the Fatimids.

[Furor_Mancunia]

To play Byzantium or any Greek faction for that matter and ally with the Turks would be a great insult.

to who? CA? KK? its a game lad. the beauty of it is you can do things that would never have happened in history.


to be fair though as ERE i make the seljuqs my first target. get the lovely Anna C to get you a marriage alliance with hungary, thus securing your northern borders. try and take sofia and scopia before the hungarians/venetians.

guard against the sneaky italians and bulldoze the seljuqs off the map. fortify anatolia and youre laughing. from this point you can go pretty much anywhere - with the massive income from greece/anatolia and the hard-as-fcuk early/high roster of the romans you cant go wrong.

edit: oh yeah i play VH/VH with sstc, huge battles, crimson tide 4. i will deffo install the BTR mod again when they get a fix for sstc. i love those standard bearers!

[FastHeinz]

The Romans should never have to ally anyone. I always fight them all on VH/VH with RR. Bring back the glory of Rome!! Kneel to no one!! (I am playing the 1400 Byz campaign, fun fun fun!)

[moosey]

At the start of the campaign, Sofia is the most urgent settlement to take. from there i find it is usually a good idea to take Bucharest and the rest of greece, albania and macedonia so that with the danube and mountain ranges you have a secure european border you can easily block off with forts to keep enemy units at bay. Remember to take Kanakale too as the control of the bosphorus is crucial.

After this, assuming that the turks have not declared war on you you should take as many north sea settlements as possible, I can usually manage to take Sinope and the Crimea before the turks of Kiev, Taking georgia can completely cut off the turks from the black sea and if you can stay friendly with Kiev will make the black sea as secure as its gonna be.

By now, the money should be rolling in and you can concentrate on anatolia and the turks. Take crete as it is a good little earner, in the past i have done this by sending all my new spies to iraklion making it rebel (the venetians rarely bother to reinforce it). Work youre way through anatolia whichever way you want remembering that Ceasarea and Iconium are the key settlements.

From then you can either go up through serbia, croatia and italy or expand into the holy lands, by now you have a secure heartland and you can do pretty much whatever you want.

Generally, i tend to keep my alliances with Hungary and Kiev as i have no desire to venture into the steppes. I also tend to stop my campaign through anatolia after ceasarea as further than that and the settlements become difficult to control and reinforce in case of attack. For me the next big push tends to be for italy although i cannot tell you how easily attacking the pope can make life so much more difficult for a byzantine ruler.

[spanish_emperor]

To play Byzantium or any Greek faction for that matter and ally with the Turks would be a great insult.

hmm, why??? The Byzantines allied with the turks and moslems many times. In fact they preferred alliances to Islamic nations because at least they respected each other unlike the barbaric western catholic nations who did not respect anybody, not even themselves. The Byzantines would have preffered to be under control of the civilized islamic states than the underdeveloped and in poverty Catholic "brothers" who despised the romans because they were better than them in practically everything excpet at being rude and arrogant. Even up to the end the Romans preffered to be conquered by the Ottomans than the Venicians or Franks because at least they were tolorant to their religions. I mean the crusaders themselves made minor attacks on Constantinople in the first crusade!
To ally with the trks is probably one of the best temporary alliances and is no insult. I do it all the time when playing the Byzzies.

[AnthoniusII]

Read "Times of hard choises" AAR (link at my sig) as a strategy manual of Byzantines...
Afcourse any other contitions would force the Romans to react other way!
But in this AAR exist the political relations,the delimas and dangers of the Roman foreign afairs policies,the tactics on stradegic level!
By few words...the nature of the medeival Roman world!

[frederickm]

hmm, why??? The Byzantines allied with the turks and moslems many times. In fact they preferred alliances to Islamic nations because at least they respected each other unlike the barbaric western catholic nations who did not respect anybody, not even themselves. The Byzantines would have preffered to be under control of the civilized islamic states than the underdeveloped and in poverty Catholic "brothers" who despised the romans because they were better than them in practically everything excpet at being rude and arrogant. Even up to the end the Romans preffered to be conquered by the Ottomans than the Venicians or Franks because at least they were tolorant to their religions. I mean the crusaders themselves made minor attacks on Constantinople in the first crusade!
To ally with the trks is probably one of the best temporary alliances and is no insult. I do it all the time when playing the Byzzies.

Well, I don't think Greeks like Turks more than they like Italians

[TheLastPrivate]

Keep the posts related to strategy please

I noticed belgrade has a gold mine. Is it worth fighting hungary and venice over it?

[King Sama]

Is the general strategy to invade the Turks, the Balkans, or someother Place? It seems that after Sofia is captured, all other provinces will bring you into conflict with multiple rival factions, and it isn't worth it. Moreover, most of the settlements aren't very wealthy. If you invade anatolia there will be a sea to seperate you from the Russians, and all military efforts can be concentrated on the turks rather than a two front war. And KoJ can become a powerful ally against Egypt. With the turks gone and anatolia captured, you can go anywhere you want, to the fertile lands of the Nile, Italy, the Balkans, or the Holy Land. Egypt will be powerful, but hopefully the KoJ can weaken it. This way you should always have a strong economy, and a strong "base" like Basil II.

[King Sama]

The same can be said for all factions, but it's equally true for the Romans - always take advantage of diplomats, they make great agents provacateur, reconnoittering enemy territory and giving funds to mutual friends.

Besides preventing attacks through aliances or ceaefires and trade rights, I've found that it is ussually much easier to simply destroy the enemy than anything else. I mean the occasional bribe or payment is usefu, but generally it really isn't worth the cost.

On a different note, the byzantine lower tier units are more powerful compared to their western counterparts, without a high cost increase. Just making these simple units such as byzantine spearmen could probably overwhelm any early militia based roster, and with cavalry support could be close to undefeatable for other early armies.

[OneArmedScissor]

I always try to establish a heartland in south east Europe before I go running around in Anatolia.
Let the Turks and Egyptians wipe out the Kingdom of Jerus. first.
Once they do that, they'll be bored and will probably turn towards you because you aren't Muslim.
By the time this happens, though, you will have established a nice economy and heartland north of Constan.
Get an alliance with Venice and try to stay allied with them as long as possible. With an alliance with Venice, you two can prey on Hungary and Kiev.
Just be an opportunist and take settlements one at a time. Take a settlement, get a cease fire. Wait a few turns, repeat. That's what Byzantine means anyway... Sly, kunning, opportunist, etc.

[Gnostiko]

Let the Turks and Egyptians wipe out the Kingdom of Jerus

Hmmm, that's a strange tactic. In a parody of history, I tend to go to the rescue of any Christian faction in the ME, albeit almost always in a financial way. I find their continued survival makes them a thorn in the side of the Muslims, allowing me to invade Egypt/North africa without a hitch.

Besides preventing attacks through aliances or ceaefires and trade rights, I've found that it is ussually much easier to simply destroy the enemy than anything else. I mean the occasional bribe or payment is usefu, but generally it really isn't worth the cost.

Hmm, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to bribing enemies and making ceasefires, although there is that too!
What I meant was their usefullness in extending your power beyond your borders. Example: if you're allied to both the HRE and Hungary, and both go to war, you can send diplomats to
a) make alliances with both when the war is over,
b) scout out the relative size of each nation to determine who you want to support,
c) render financial aid to the nation you're supporting (and the nation it's fighting, if you're feeling malicious)
d) explore Europe to determine potential trade partners (or those who've grown too powerful and need your support cutting)
e) foreign princesses. 'nuff said

Besides the aforementioned reasons, it's historically accurate too - although capable fighters, the Romans began to lean more heavily on diplomatic options.