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    Default Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    I used to play chess a lot, and learned the value of thinking ahead. And I've been trying to think ahead a couple years into the Obama presidency.

    One of 2 things is going to happen...either he will fulfill his promises and restore the economy and harmony of Americans of all persuasions and America's place in the world...or, a disaster of monumental scale will occur and his naysayers will be proven right, and his agenda for the future will be found to be actually based on an evil background with which he is being attempted to be tied to. If the former, everyone will be happy, the Repubs begrudgingly so. But if the latter.......oh my. Class warfare, race warfare, military intervention....all those nasty things rear their heads.

    Factually speaking, Obama is indeed lean on "experience". Factually speaking, he has had interactions with people most Americans don't think kindly of (Wright, Ayers, Khalidi). Factually speaking, he is half black with an Arabic name.

    I wonder what time will reveal. If the judgement he has displayed during his campaign, which has continued to bolster the confidence of those who value judgement over other characteristics, will also indicate to him the faith he has been given?

    A large part of my vote was based on faith. A smaller part was based on the opposition. An even smaller part was based on their respective platforms.

    This post is mainly directed at folks who have, will, or would if they could, vote for Obama, but of course anyone can give an opinion. How much of your vote for Obama was based on FAITH vs belief in the Democratic party or Obama's platform?
    Last edited by Mikelus Trento; October 31, 2008 at 10:36 AM.
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

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  2. #2
    Problem Sleuth's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    ...Or the 3rd thing happens, and he's just an average president.
    Armed with your TOMMY GUN, you are one hard boiled lug. Nobody mess with this tough guy, see?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertinator View Post
    ...Or the 3rd thing happens, and he's just an average president.
    With the times being as they are, is that a likely scenario?

    You are correct of course, but with the economy especially, and international relations secondary but close, I think an "average" President right now will rate as a failure.
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

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    Odovacar's Avatar I am with Europe!
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Here is what a non-american think.

    If I were american I would feel...A black guy with arabic name...strange.
    I want my white anglo-saxon protestant man, (no pun intended, I would feel rightly so) I would want traditions.

    However..looking at Mc Cain i would feel. He is an old soldier doing politics. Sometimes new things must be tried.
    Hope needed. Economy is in crisis.

    What Obama thinks no one knows. Certainly he has a big task. But somehow for an ouer spectator he seems to be serious.
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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Faith in a politican?

    OMG

    What kind of fool does that? My god look at their policies and decide what you think is best. Don't fall for poll tested phrases, or good looks, or charisma.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; October 31, 2008 at 10:45 AM.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Faith in a politican?

    OMG

    What kind of fool does that?
    /slap
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?




    But serously Mike what do you think he is going to change? From what to what?


    Meh, don't anwer that, there are enough threads on that stuff already.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; October 31, 2008 at 11:02 AM.
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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Congratulations OP, you have realized.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    Congratulations OP, you have realized.
    It isn't like a grand awakening. I've always known my trust in Obama was based more on my faith in his judgement than anything else. You can go back months ago on this forum and see me say things like judgement trumps experience.

    I guess I am just fishing around to see how many others based their vote mainly on that.
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

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  10. #10
    Hunter Makoy's Avatar We got 2 words for ya..
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikelus Trento View Post
    I used to play chess a lot, and learned the value of thinking ahead. And I've been trying to think ahead a couple years into the Obama presidency.

    One of 2 things is going to happen...either he will fulfill his promises and restore the economy and harmony of Americans of all persuasions and America's place in the world...or, a disaster of monumental scale will occur and his naysayers will be proven right, and his agenda for the future will be found to be actually based on an evil background with which he is being attempted to be tied to. If the former, everyone will be happy, the Repubs begrudgingly so. But if the latter.......oh my. Class warfare, race warfare, military intervention....all those nasty things rear their heads.

    Factually speaking, Obama is indeed lean on "experience". Factually speaking, he has had interactions with people most Americans don't think kindly of (Wright, Ayers, Khalidi). Factually speaking, he is half black with an Arabic name.

    I wonder what time will reveal. If the judgement he has displayed during his campaign, which has continued to bolster the confidence of those who value judgement over other characteristics, will also indicate to him the faith he has been given?

    A large part of my vote was based on faith. A smaller part was based on the opposition. An even smaller part was based on their respective platforms.

    This post is mainly directed at folks who have, will, or would if they could, vote for Obama, but of course anyone can give an opinion. How much of your vote for Obama was based on FAITH vs belief in the Democratic party or Obama's platform?
    certainly he could turn out to be a bad president, but having the terrorist ties turn out be true is hardly a requirement. he doesn't have to be a terrorist to be a bad President, give the man some credit!

    i love the poorly masked praise in the OP of basically saying the only way Obama could be short of amazing is if it turns out he really is a terrorist.

    nice 'objective' view. lol i think if anything he could be looked at as Clinton was, a fine presidency, but nothing spectacular or really memorable, aside from breaking the color barrier.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Makoy View Post
    i love the poorly masked praise in the OP of basically saying the only way Obama could be short of amazing is if it turns out he really is a terrorist.

    nice 'objective' view. lol


    I have no reason to suspect my faith is misplaced, just enjoy playing devil's advocate.
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

    Freedom is the distance between church and state.

  12. #12
    Panzerbear's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Obama is 80% faith and 20% substance.

    thats substance mostly consists out of his intelligence and very good natural public speaking talent. none of which are a qualification for the highest office on planet earth.

    but hey, may be it is just me. we all should see the light. and hope for a change.


    Throw away all your newspapers!
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Quote Originally Posted by .Czar View Post
    Obama is 80% faith and 20% substance.

    thats substance mostly consists out of his intelligence and very good natural public speaking talent. none of which are a qualification for the highest office on planet earth.

    but hey, may be it is just me. we all should see the light. and hope for a change.
    Care to elaborate?

    Sure, you can become president without a high amount of intelligence (*looks at Bush*) but I believe intelligence is still very important, or should be at least.
    Curious Curialist curing the Curia of all things Curial.

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    Problem Sleuth's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanus View Post
    Care to elaborate?

    Sure, you can become president without a high amount of intelligence (*looks at Bush*) but I believe intelligence is still very important, or should be at least.
    Are you kidding? We quite clearly need our presidents to have Down's Syndrome. Pfft. Who needs to be 'smart' or 'talented' or 'do a good job'?
    Armed with your TOMMY GUN, you are one hard boiled lug. Nobody mess with this tough guy, see?

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    Panzerbear's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanus View Post
    Care to elaborate?
    I'll take years of actual experience over intelligence for a big politician any day.
    intelligence does not equate wisdom. quite often it suggests the contrary .

    Sure, you can become president without a high amount of intelligence (*looks at Bush*) but I believe intelligence is still very important, or should be at least.
    yes, intelligence is very important, no doubt about it. but each president has HUNDREDS of different advisors and consultants who work for him. a good judgement is much more important in this case.

    John McCain has infinitely more actual experience and wisdom than Obama. it is rather obvious. yes, McCain doesnt have a Law degree from Harward, but he did graduate from US Naval Academy and has been to big politics for over 25 years after he ended his career in the military.

    Obama has what record that made him fit for the US President office? few years spent in a IL state senate and a dubious record of 2 years in US senate? I am sorry, but this is laughable.

    Throw away all your newspapers!
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    Problem Sleuth's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Quote Originally Posted by .Czar View Post
    I'll take years of actual experience over intelligence for a big politician any day.
    intelligence does not equate wisdom. quite often it suggests the contrary .



    yes, intelligence is very important, no doubt about it. but each president has HUNDREDS of different advisors and consultants who work for him. a good judgement is much more important in this case.

    John McCain has infinitely more actual experience and wisdom than Obama. it is rather obvious. yes, McCain doesnt have a Law degree from Harward, but he did graduate from US Naval Academy and has been to big politics for over 25 years after he ended his career in the military.

    Obama has what record that made him fit for the US President office? few years spent in a IL state senate and a dubious record of 2 years in US senate? I am sorry, but this is laughable.
    1.) John McCain nearly finished dead last. We're talking about in under the bottom 1%. His actual military career wasn't much better. If that's experience, someone who got F's and D's in high school also has lots of knowledge and experience about the classes he took.

    2.) 8 years in the Illinois State Senate, 2 years in the US Senate. 10 years altogether. It could be better, but I don't think it's fair to act like he has no idea what the hell he's doing.
    Armed with your TOMMY GUN, you are one hard boiled lug. Nobody mess with this tough guy, see?

  17. #17
    Bovril's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    If I was an American, I'd be voting more the the kind of people a president would appoint than the president himself.

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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    Obama and the Politics of Crowds
    The masses greeting the candidate on the trail are a sign of great unease.

    By FOUAD AJAMIA

    There is something odd -- and dare I say novel -- in American politics about the crowds that have been greeting Barack Obama on his campaign trail. Hitherto, crowds have not been a prominent feature of American politics. We associate them with the temper of Third World societies. We think of places like Argentina and Egypt and Iran, of multitudes brought together by their zeal for a Peron or a Nasser or a Khomeini. In these kinds of societies, the crowd comes forth to affirm its faith in a redeemer: a man who would set the world right.

    As the late Nobel laureate Elias Canetti observes in his great book, "Crowds and Power" (first published in 1960), the crowd is based on an illusion of equality: Its quest is for that moment when "distinctions are thrown off and all become equal. It is for the sake of this blessed moment, when no one is greater or better than another, that people become a crowd." These crowds, in the tens of thousands, who have been turning out for the Democratic standard-bearer in St. Louis and Denver and Portland, are a measure of American distress.

    On the face of it, there is nothing overwhelmingly stirring about Sen. Obama. There is a cerebral quality to him, and an air of detachment. He has eloquence, but within bounds. After nearly two years on the trail, the audience can pretty much anticipate and recite his lines. The political genius of the man is that he is a blank slate. The devotees can project onto him what they wish. The coalition that has propelled his quest -- African-Americans and affluent white liberals -- has no economic coherence. But for the moment, there is the illusion of a common undertaking -- Canetti's feeling of equality within the crowd. The day after, the crowd will of course discover its own fissures. The affluent will have to pay for the programs promised the poor. The redistribution agenda that runs through Mr. Obama's vision is anathema to the Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and the hedge-fund managers now smitten with him. Their ethos is one of competition and the justice of the rewards that come with risk and effort. All this is shelved, as the devotees sustain the candidacy of a man whose public career has been a steady advocacy of reining in the market and organizing those who believe in entitlement and redistribution.

    A creature of universities and churches and nonprofit institutions, the Illinois senator, with the blessing and acquiescence of his upscale supporters, has glided past these hard distinctions. On the face of it, it must be surmised that his affluent devotees are ready to foot the bill for the new order, or are convinced that after victory the old ways will endure, and that Mr. Obama will govern from the center. Ambiguity has been a powerful weapon of this gifted candidate: He has been different things to different people, and he was under no obligation to tell this coalition of a thousand discontents, and a thousand visions, the details of his political programs: redistribution for the poor, postracial absolution and "modernity" for the upper end of the scale.

    It was no accident that the white working class was the last segment of the population to sign up for the Obama journey. Their hesitancy was not about race. They were men and women of practicality; they distrusted oratory, they could see through the falseness of the solidarity offered by this campaign. They did not have much, but believed in the legitimacy of what little they had acquired. They valued work and its rewards. They knew and heard of staggering wealth made by the Masters of the Universe, but held onto their faith in the outcomes that economic life decreed. The economic hurricane that struck America some weeks ago shook them to the core. They now seek protection, the shelter of the state, and the promise of social repair. The bonuses of the wizards who ran the great corporate entities had not bothered them. It was the spectacle of the work of the wizards melting before our eyes that unsettled them.

    Daniel Patrick Moynihan, the late Democratic senator from New York, once set the difference between American capitalism and the older European version by observing that America was the party of liberty, whereas Europe was the party of equality. Just in the nick of time for the Obama candidacy, the American faith in liberty began to crack. The preachers of America's decline in the global pecking order had added to the panic. Our best days were behind us, the declinists prophesied. The sun was setting on our imperium, and rising in other lands.

    A younger man, "cool" and collected, carrying within his own biography the strands of the world beyond America's shores, was put forth as a herald of the change upon us. The crowd would risk the experiment. There was grudge and a desire for retribution in the crowd to begin with. Akin to the passions that have shaped and driven highly polarized societies, this election has at its core a desire to settle the unfinished account of the presidential election eight years ago. George W. Bush's presidency remained, for his countless critics and detractors, a tale of usurpation. He had gotten what was not his due; more galling still, he had been bold and unabashed, and taken his time at the helm as an opportunity to assert an ambitious doctrine of American power abroad. He had waged a war of choice in Iraq.

    This election is the rematch that John Kerry had not delivered on. In the fashion of the crowd that seeks and sees the justice of retribution, Mr. Obama's supporters have been willing to overlook his means. So a candidate pledged to good government and to ending the role of money in our political life opts out of public financing of presidential campaigns. What of it? The end justifies the means.

    Save in times of national peril, Americans have been sober, really minimalist, in what they expected out of national elections, out of politics itself. The outcomes that mattered were decided in the push and pull of daily life, by the inventors and the entrepreneurs, and the captains of industry and finance. To be sure, there was a measure of willfulness in this national vision, for politics and wars guided the destiny of this republic. But that American sobriety and skepticism about politics -- and leaders -- set this republic apart from political cultures that saw redemption lurking around every corner.

    My boyhood, and the Arab political culture I have been chronicling for well over three decades, are anchored in the Arab world. And the tragedy of Arab political culture has been the unending expectation of the crowd -- the street, we call it -- in the redeemer who will put an end to the decline, who will restore faded splendor and greatness. When I came into my own, in the late 1950s and '60s, those hopes were invested in the Egyptian Gamal Abdul Nasser. He faltered, and broke the hearts of generations of Arabs. But the faith in the Awaited One lives on, and it would forever circle the Arab world looking for the next redeemer.

    America is a different land, for me exceptional in all the ways that matter. In recent days, those vast Obama crowds, though, have recalled for me the politics of charisma that wrecked Arab and Muslim societies. A leader does not have to say much, or be much. The crowd is left to its most powerful possession -- its imagination.

    From Elias Canetti again: "But the crowd, as such, disintegrates. It has a presentiment of this and fears it. . . . Only the growth of the crowd prevents those who belong to it from creeping back under their private burdens."
    The morning after the election, the disappointment will begin to settle upon the Obama crowd. Defeat -- by now unthinkable to the devotees -- will bring heartbreak. Victory will steadily deliver the sobering verdict that our troubles won't be solved by a leader's magic.

    Mr. Ajami is professor of Middle Eastern Studies at the School of Advanced International Studies, Johns Hopkins University, and an adjunct research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution.
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    Problem Sleuth's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    There is something odd -- and dare I say novel -- in American politics about the crowds that have been greeting Barack Obama on his campaign trail. Hitherto, crowds have not been a prominent feature of American politics.
    What? You're kidding me, right? Both parties draw tens of thousands of people. It's hardly odd at all. If you want a good retort... Crowds drawn to Palin, which I believe JP was talking about on some thread or another a few days ago.
    Armed with your TOMMY GUN, you are one hard boiled lug. Nobody mess with this tough guy, see?

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    The King Of Peasants's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Does Obama understand how much FAITH people have given him?

    The reason this election takes faith is because none of the candidates are actually expert at anything.

    If your going to vote for Barack do it on policy as maybe people will like him for a while but people will eventually dislike him as they do with all other politicians thats the way it is.

    Lincoln or Roosevelt didn't have supporters who had faith in them they had good sound policy and level heads.
    "July 14, 2008: I think this is a case where Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are fundamentally sound. They're not in danger of going under. They're not the best investment these days from a long term standpoint going back. I think they are in good shape going forward. They're in the housing market. I do think their prospects going forward are very solid."
    -Barney Frank

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