Assaulting a city/castle

[robbo]

I've been playing this game for a while now and although I'm good enough in an open battle and when defending from a siege, I rarely do assaults on the battlemap. I tend to auto-resolve 95% of the time. Whereas when defending I auto-resolve 10% of the time and on in an open field I never auto-resolve. So I thought I'd ask for a few tips on how to assault a settlement effectively. There'll probably be a lot of questions coming up and I'd be grateful for answers to any of them.

What siege equipment should I build? I generally go for a ram and 2 towers if I'm able to build them in one turn. If not, a ram and 2 ladders. What's the best option? Do I spread these around the city or concentrate them on certain areas? Are ladders and towers pointless against Fortresses and Citadels? Should I bother with catapults and trebuchets or just wait until gunpowder comes along?

What do I do once I've destroyed a wall? Do I keep firing at another section of wall or go for the towers? Or perhaps move in straight away? Should I have troops ready to charge through an opening as soon as a wall falls?

I'm assuming a lot of heavy infantry will be most effective. But are there ways to make use of cavalry and archers?

In a two or three level castle what do I do capture the first section? Do I regroup and then plan out an attack again or do I rush the enemy while they're still retreating?

I understand circumstances vary and tactics will need to be adapted but I just wanted a few general pointers. Cheers

[Silent Assassin]

Nice thread keep up the good work

I have given you Rep

[hitokiri2486]

Probably the best principle to keep in mind is to spread their forces out disproportionately to yours. This is most easily done when your force is larger than theirs; by attacking at widely separate points on the wall, you spread out their forces too thin and they can be beaten by defeat in detail.

With settlements I always build multiple rams, with a few towers, even if it takes more than one turn; since settlements have multiple gates, it's really easy to break in at a weakly defended area and swarm into the plaza. For castles, which usually have only one gate, I tend to build more towers or bring in siege equipment.

Some thoughts about siege equipment: they are best used to punch holes through walls with enemy troops on top. Bring a lot of siege engines--I like to use 3 trebuchets, personally, but I've also modified the game so that each unit has more trebuchets!--and concentrate them at a single spot on the wall with flaming ammo. Not only will you break down the wall fast, you'll kill at least a dozen defenders and when the wall breaks a large portion of them will fall to their deaths. After making a hole I usually destroy any towers nearby and then pour my troops through the gap. If the settlement is particularly well-defended though, I'll punch several holes near each other so that I can commit more of my forces at the same time, and cut the enemy army up into manageable portions that are cut off from each other.

When attacking, an army of mostly heavy infantry is best. You want shock troops to kill/route, heavy swordsmen to wear down the defenders, and especially pikemen, who are very powerful when fighting in the streets. Ranged units can be useful, but it depends on how you use them. I like to put them on top of walls I've taken, where they can fire down below at enemy units. It is also an excellent tactic when assaulting fortresses and citadels defended by mainly cavalry: the town square in fortresses and citadels are very close to the walls, and without infantry the cavalry obviously cannot get on top of the walls. What I like to do is put ladders up, get my crossbowmen or longbowmen on the battlements, and then shoot down the cavalry in the square until they are all dead. Easy victory!

Mounted ranged units are also excellent in sieges as well, once you've broken into the settlement and can navigate the streets. Skirmishing units such as mounted longbowmen, jinetes, mounted crossbowmen, and reiters can wear down units and break up formations from a safe distance; I often use them to distract enemy units that then give chase, before routing them with a charge from behind.

Hope this was useful!

[HighLord z0b]

I agree with the above post (except I mod more ammo for each trebuchet rather than more trebuchets).

The only thing I'll add is that the most important thing when knocking down walls in a siege is to really look at the settlement and work out which is the best part of the wall to attack. It often isn't the gate, usually a corner or a long flat wall is better. The gates have many towers around them whilst a corner or another part of the wall will only have a couple.

Ladders are actually very useful, especially once you've knocked all the enemy archers off the walls. I will often send up a unit of infantry followed by some archers to shoot down onto the defenders, the infantry is there to protect the archers from enemy infantry running back up.

[Morkonan]

...What siege equipment should I build? I generally go for a ram and 2 towers if I'm able to build them in one turn. If not, a ram and 2 ladders. What's the best option?

That really depends on what you are attacking. Rams and towers can easily be set on fire by high level defenses or defenders, rendering them useless. So, when attacking citadels/large cities with huge walls and such, build at least two rams if you're relying on them to break the gate. A siege tower is a wonderful thing but they tend to go up in flames pretty quickly if that's all the defenders have to fire on. Ladders are great, since they don't get burned (that I know of) but they offer the least protection for your units and there seems to be a penalty on their defense when they use them. But, if you want to be sure to have something to scale the walls with, make sure you have a set of ladders.

However, if you want a guaranteed "skeleton key" for any defense, bring artillery. Gunpowder or catapult/trebuchet, it doesn't matter. Either will get the job done. If you are going to use the artillery and not any other means to get past their defenses, the least you can bring is two catapult units. Even if one of them is manned by nearsighted morons, combined they can knock down a gate.

Note: I always use screening troops. Preferably, something expendable like peasants or cheap mercs to act as arrow catchers and draw the enemy's fire. Generally, I'll put them in range first in open formation, sometimes with archers (preferably well armored) supporting them to draw more fire. This won't keep automatic defenses from engaging siege equipment, but it will lessen the chance the gear you are totally dependent upon gets ruined. While the arrow-catchers are busy catching arrows and ballista bolts, the siege units go to work.

Do I spread these around the city or concentrate them on certain areas?

I prefer to concentrate my forces. It makes the chance less of having units cut-off and chopped to bits. After all, if I want to get in, I want to do it in strength and not be faced with having three units cut off and butchered no matter how good their chances of breaching the walls are.

Are ladders and towers pointless against Fortresses and Citadels?

Not in my opinion. But, I find I don't really need to use them very often. At that point, I usually have some form of artillery with me. The choice to build them is also very dependent upon what types of units the defender has. If they have infantry units with decent stats or high defense missile troops, they can chew your units up on a wall attack. (The melee rating for some missile troops is pretty extrordinary too.) I usually use such attacks to tie up wall-placed troops and keep them from hitting me in the back or firing upon my ram as I enter their defenses through a broken gate or a wall.

Should I bother with catapults and trebuchets or just wait until gunpowder comes along?

Well, they didn't wait around for gunpowder in medievel times, did they? So, you shouldn't either. If you have two catapults or a trebuchet, you can nullify the value any one section of wall or gate has for them. Why not use that tool? The fear factor alone can help cause an early rout.

What do I do once I've destroyed a wall?

Rush the breach. If you notice them massing at the breach you're going to have a slugfest. Try to break a unit through or have a cavalry unit in a V try to get past their lines and hit them from the rear at the breach. Then, roll them up like an old newspaper.

Do I keep firing at another section of wall or go for the towers?

That depends on how much softening up you want or need to do. Also, if you're planning on keeping the city/fortress, you're going to have to fix that damage eventually. Also, if they don't have a unit near that section of wall or tower, then they lose the automatic-defensive fire that section would give them. If there are none of their units near that wall/tower or likely to be, there's no reason to attack it.

Or perhaps move in straight away? Should I have troops ready to charge through an opening as soon as a wall falls?

That depends on whether that wall has enemy troops near it. Usually, it will. Therefore, it's got automatic defensive fire bonuses with it and standing a lot of troops around within range is a "bad thing." In general, I keep all my assault units out of missile range until the breach has been made and only then do I march them in.

I'm assuming a lot of heavy infantry will be most effective. But are there ways to make use of cavalry and archers?

Calvalry are great for sweeping down the streets and hitting the enemy from behind. I never like to assault without cavalry. They're also good at helping to push through a breach by being able to break through the lines and turn around for a rear-charge at those defending the breach. However, I would never use them as the first unit in. They get chewed up by missile fire and run too big of a risk of being trapped as, once inside the walls, their freedom to manuever is greatly reduced.

I'm not big on archers for assaults. They're good if you can get them up on the walls to fire on formations of defending troops below and, occassionally, decent at firing at concentrations of enemy in the city square. But, they're not good for much else except arrow-catchers with my screening units during the first phase of the assault. One thing to note is that some "very long" range missile troops have ranges longer than the defensive fire and elevated enemy troops will have. That can come in handy on cities/fortresses that do not have very upgraded defenses. But, the defensive bonus that being behind the crenalations of a wall have will reduce the effectiveness of your assaulting missile troops against defenders.

In a two or three level castle what do I do capture the first section? Do I regroup and then plan out an attack again or do I rush the enemy while they're still retreating?

That depends on if you can get in and establish a foothold. Most of the time you can't and if you could you'd probably have your units separated and cut to pieces. I generally regroup. After all, the defenders aren't going anywhere. But, make sure to do all the damage to a retreating enemy that you can.

[HighLord z0b]

What do I do once I've destroyed a wall?
Do I keep firing at another section of wall or go for the towers?

Actually when I breach the wall, I will concentrate on the towers, once they are down I will then send some infantry supported by archers in a narrow block towards the wall. Then I'll stop just short of the breach and use archers to fire onto the defenders in the breach, they will stand there and take the fire except for maybe going in and out of loose formation. Once I've whittled them down enough I will attack.

Another option once the walls have been breached and the towers are down is to use a ballista and/or crossbowmen to fire into the men defending the breach. Again back them up with infantry standing nearby but not in their line of fire.

Remember that if they send archers back onto the walls to get your artillery to start firing on the wall they're standing on, it will kill a few and then they will run away again.

[platinumkiller]

me i belive that it is good that if they have 2 or 3 walls to send men off to kil lthem if tehre close but if not i would find a good spot to set up because many battles the enemies will try counter attackin so i would have every flank full with a spear man unit calvary units and a heavy infrentry....archers middle or on first line of walls also good to take different roads with calvary so they can charge another unit of men attacking your spear men...thus killing many men before asualting there next wall.

[Silent Assassin]

When defending a citadel againt 3 full stacks I will usally keep all my units in the center of my castle. I place two of my cavalery units near the gates to have the towers shoot them a bit, when my gates almost destroyed a call back my cavalery in my castle center. I have archers placed on the walls on each side and some on top of my final gate spearmen in front of the gate and other archers ready to fire further back of my spearmen.

I never lose that way

[Lysimachus]

I put two units of archers at each defence line in a citadel (at the gatehouses). Preferably multi-purpose archers so they can hold their ground if a unit goes up the walls and attacks them. Then I would have three strong units for defending the walls with the archers (at each defence line) and six units for delaying the enemy at the breaches (two at each defence line).

Hmm. 6+3+6. 15. Then I would have a powerful unit at the plaza and a General too. This isn't neccessarily effective but it does prolong the struggle, and that makes it fun.

[Alla]

Spreading your self but if you have more than them by a lot then send in 2-3 units of Heavy infantry to wear them down then rush from sides with Cavalry and pikemen.

For wall breaches go for the towers afterwards while sending your pike men in the breaches, they are best for holding breaches, or if its early then use spear men in the holes but have then so one unit on the side, one in the middle, and one on the other side then if one routs the others can get in on the act, if the defenders rout, :hmmm:Maybe Cav to run them down just make sure you watch the opponents, they might trick you...

[Dreiko]

Well when attacking i like having 2 heavy infantry units with ladders at some random parts of the walls and the rest of my army with the main siege equipment (rams or towers).

So if the defender defends the parts of wall facing my 2 forlorn hope units i attack with the main force against a weakend enemy (i always wait until the enemy is at least half my size, no need to get cocky on a siege and loose half your army) and break through easily. If they dont i have my men up the walls and attack at the same time from 3 sides. (Once i had them take the square while i was attacking the wall. I won the battle before i could demolish the 3 wall sections i wanted because no one turned around to take the square back...... A...I?)

In defence i concentrate every sinlge archer on the wall if they have no siege engines and wear them down, until i withdraw my archers to the square. If they do, i have no need for my archers to die in vain, i concentrate everything on the square. I have won many surprising victories that way. (and had some shamefull defeats too.....)

[Lord Khaliqo]

Like someone else above me wisely noted, artillery is VERY important. If you're advanced enough in time and technology, go for bombards and all that gunpowder stuff. Not only will you tear through the walls, but you'll also kill chunks of his units that are stationed on the walls (such as crossbowmen, archers, and melee fighters waiting for your towers and ladders).

When you've breached the walls, hit his towers, to minimize the damage you'll take when you move in. When you run out of ammo, send in some good infantry through the breaches. Don't send in cavalry, because if your enemy is any good he'll block the holes with thick spearmen who you can't just charge into.

Once your footsoldiers have a foothold inside the city, bring in the rest of the troops and watch out for sneaky guerilla tactics your enemy might employ against you, such as cavalry charging your flanks from behind street corners and ranged units harassing you from alleyways. Try to take the fight to the square, because that puts your enemy in the weaker position. The clock is now against them, not against you.

[jonny duck]

I hate attacking places without siege equipment. Depending on what stage of the game you are at really determines which tactics to use, but as a guide.

Early game:
Rams to break down the smallest settlement walls or gates. Preferably walls as there are usually fewer towers and it makes a bigger hole.
If its anything larger then i tend to spam ladders, maybe have 5 or 6 at least. Send them to different part of a wall and hope they cant mass archers.

Mid game:
Usually by now you have access to catapults or trebs'. Get maybe 3 or 4 units of them in an army and have them focus on the same spot of wall, to make it fall before the enemy units can move off it, so that you kill their troops. If its only single walled then by all means use your extra ammo to make a couple more holes or to kill troops. (bear in mind excess damage to the town or castle will cost you later). Usually you can then rush your troops in through the holes.

If you dont have siege engines, then build a couple of towers and then some ladders. Ladders can move faster than towers so choose where you want your towers to strike, and then send ladders either side, to get units on the wall to distract any archers. Then your towers can move up relativly unmolested. If your playing a version or mod which means that the gates of anything made of stone have boiling oil, then never go through the gate way, it kills too many troops and in my experiance your generals as well.

Late Game:
Gunpowder is a godsend. Use it, abuse it.

[Lysimachus]

I think the gunpowder artillery of M2TW is just flat out game-breaking. I mean, with the paper-thin walls of any stage of fortifications it just ruins the whole fun of having to raise ladders and then fight the battle of attrition on the walls. With cannons you just blast some holes and there you go.

[Morkonan]

I think the gunpowder artillery of M2TW is just flat out game-breaking. I mean, with the paper-thin walls of any stage of fortifications it just ruins the whole fun of having to raise ladders and then fight the battle of attrition on the walls. With cannons you just blast some holes and there you go.

It was fairly "game breaking" in real-life when it turned up as well. Some really interesting fortification designs tried to mitigate the power of gunpowder. Earthwork backed walls, star-shaped fortress configurations, building underground instead of tall towers and castles.. all sorts of attempts were made to defend against gunpowder units. In the end, it spelled the demise of the classic static fortress "castle" as no walls alone could withstand any serious siege by gunpowder units. Fortresses became almost undergound, labyrinthine affairs with earthworks and fortified gun positions as walls were no longer enough to defend against men.

When stone failed, simple dirt prevailed. It was more suitable to absorbing shock and making a few holes in dirt with cannon didn't exactly debilitate the value of earthworks.. dirt and rubble just filled it back in. Advances in technology made projectiles capable of piercing through even the thickest stone and mortar configurations. Troops would wait out the barrage in fortified bunkers and come spilling out, taking to their fortified gun positions. If you can't kill the men, you can't take the position and even though you may have breached their defenses, you still had to overwhelm them. Not easy to do if they duck everytime you shoot. "Defilade" became the word of the day and demanded increasingly accurate and deadly mortar fire to be brought to bear to root out obscured targets immune to regular cannon. Being high on the walls of a castle overlooking the enemy was a sucker's bet when gunpowder came along.

All in all, not a pretty picture.

[Highi]

It was fairly "game breaking" in real-life when it turned up as well. Some really interesting fortification designs tried to mitigate the power of gunpowder. Earthwork backed walls, star-shaped fortress configurations, building underground instead of tall towers and castles.. all sorts of attempts were made to defend against gunpowder units. In the end, it spelled the demise of the classic static fortress "castle" as no walls alone could withstand any serious siege by gunpowder units. Fortresses became almost undergound, labyrinthine affairs with earthworks and fortified gun positions as walls were no longer enough to defend against men.

When stone failed, simple dirt prevailed. It was more suitable to absorbing shock and making a few holes in dirt with cannon didn't exactly debilitate the value of earthworks.. dirt and rubble just filled it back in. Advances in technology made projectiles capable of piercing through even the thickest stone and mortar configurations. Troops would wait out the barrage in fortified bunkers and come spilling out, taking to their fortified gun positions. If you can't kill the men, you can't take the position and even though you may have breached their defenses, you still had to overwhelm them. Not easy to do if they duck everytime you shoot. "Defilade" became the word of the day and demanded increasingly accurate and deadly mortar fire to be brought to bear to root out obscured targets immune to regular cannon. Being high on the walls of a castle overlooking the enemy was a sucker's bet when gunpowder came along.

All in all, not a pretty picture.

And so, trenchwarfare was born... sort of. In the open field, the two opposing fronts would just form up lines and shoot the out of eachother, till one side routed or was oblitterated.

[RusticDeaTH]

I believe that this type of warfare is called the Gentleman's war.