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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Stunning Rise by True Finns Party
    Published 26.10.2008, 23.28 (updated 27.10.2008, 00.13)

    Party Chair Timo Soini pleased with election results.

    The surprise victor in these elections is the True Finns Party. Although still a small party with few seats on any city council, the party posted a stunning rise in popular support. Party chair MP Timo Soini, who was running for a seat on the Espoo city council, also garnered more votes than any other politician in the country.

    Since the last municipal elections in 2004, the True Finns have risen from relative obscurity to become the sixth largest party in the nation. At that time, they earned less than one percent of the vote. Now, they have multiplied thier popular support to 5.5 percent.

    Soini says he believes this strong growth will also be reflected in the next Parliamentary elections.

    SDP chair Jutta Urpilainen says she believes the True Finns made gains at the SDP's expense, while National Coalition chair Jyrki Katainen credited Soini's down-to-earth charisma for the party's popularity.

    The Green League also made gains, surpassing the Left Alliance as the largest of the smaller parties. Party Chair Tarja Cronberg says she was quite happy with the result.

    She also commented on the True Finns' sudden rise, speculating that the party was perhaps finally making its message reach the public - thanks in large part to a charismatic leader, she says.

    Of the smaller parties, the Green League is out front with 8.9 percent, followed by the Left Alliance (8.8 percent), the True Finns (5.4 percent), the Swedish People's Party (4.7 percent), and the Christian Democrats (4.2).

    YLE News
    http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id105684.html

    MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS, SUNDAY 23:45: National Coalition Party largest party, True Finns big winners, gains for Greens
    Voter turnout up by around 3%-points across country despite foul weather

    With all the votes counted, the results of the municipal elections held across Finland are as follows, with the figures for the 2004 municipal elections in parentheses:

    National Coalition Party 23.4% (21.8%)
    SDP 21.2% (24.1%)
    Centre Party 20.1% (22.8%)
    Greens 8.9% (7.4%)
    Left Alliance 8.8% (9.5%)
    True Finns 5.4% (0.9%)
    Swedish People's Party 4.7% (5.2%)
    Christian Democrats 4.2% (4.0%)
    Independent 2.4% (3.3%)
    Others 0.7% (0.8%)


    The result is historic in the sense that it is the first time the National Coalition Party has been the largest party in the country at these local elections, and also for the massive gains recorded by the populist True Finns, led by Timo Soini.

    The True Finns polled almost six times as many votes as four years ago and swept past the Swedish People's Party and Christian Democrats.

    For the Centre Party under Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen, the result will come as a disappointment, particularly as the conservatives of the NCP under Vanhanen's Finance Minister Jyrki Katainen seem to have had conspicuously less difficulty coping with the assumed handicap of government office.

    For the Social Democrats, who have been in opposition since a stinging defeat in the Parliamentary elections of March 2007 and who have been led only for a matter of months by Jutta Urpilainen, the fact that they have held on to second place, despite haemorrhaging votes, will probably been seen as a relief: last-minute opinion polls had forecast an even worse result for the SDP.

    The Left Alliance lost ground alongside the Social Democrats, while the Greens - who initially looked like having a horrid night as the first results came in - put on more than 1.5%-points to squeeze past the Left Alliance and become the fourth-largest party in the country.

    The Greens, led by Tarja Cronberg, also overhauled the Social Democrats in both Helsinki and Espoo to become the second-largest party on those councils.

    The Social Democrats had a further setback in Vantaa, where their traditional dominant position was usurped narrowly by the National Coalition Party.

    These three resounding defeats in the largest cities in the country will give the SDP faithful pause for considerable thought, irrespective of whether they feel they polled better than the forecasters had projected.

    The True Finns may have only secured 5.4% of the votes, but considering that they polled less than 1% four years ago, this was an outstanding performance under their leader Soini, who was the biggest vote-catcher in Espoo and indeed second only to the Greens' Osmo Soininvaara (Helsinki) in the entire country, regardless of political party.

    Pundits suggested that the True Finns had seized votes from the SDP and Centre above all.

    In Espoo, the presence of Timo Soini (who took more than 8,000 votes) on the electoral lists powered the True Finns to seven council seats, only two fewer than were won by the Social Democrats, who clearly suffered here from Soini's landslide.

    The True Finns group, whose roots lie in the protest movement and Finnish Rural Party (Suomen Maaseudun Puolue, SMP) led by the father & son pairing of Veikko and Pekka Vennamo, has often been seen as Soini's own personal fiefdom, but this result indicates that support can be found across the country.

    The opposition populists have drawn fire in some quarters for their outspoken views on immigration, but clearly in places these have struck a chord with disgruntled Finnish voters.

    The election result can hardly be seen in terms of government vs. opposition, given the solid showing by the National Coalition and the arguably even better performance by their government junior partners in the Greens.

    This contrasts with the 2.5%-point losses incurred by the Centre Party and the smaller defeat for the other government grouping, the Swedish People's Party.

    The most recent opinion polls had forecast both the rise of the NCP conservatives and the surge by the True Finns, but in the latter case there had been some doubts over whether it would materialise on the scale predicted.

    In fact it seems to have been still larger than the polls indicated.

    Voter turnout was up across the country by around 3% points to reach 61.3%.

    In many cases, where municipalities had merged since the last elections, or where a major incident had galvanised voters (one case in point was the water supply problems encountered in Nokia, near Tampere), the turnout rose even more, by as much as 6%-points in places.

    This happened in the face of some extremely hostile weather on Sunday, as Finland was lashed top to bottom by heavy rain and driving winds that tested the resolve of many to go out and vote if they had not done so in advance.

    A possible reason for the greater interest may be worries about the future as Finland faces economic contraction in the global slowdown.

    One thing is certain: whoever is in charge of Finland's municipalities for the next four years is not going to have an easy time of it. Making ends meet in straitened economic circumstances is likely to put quite a strain on some of the more florid election promises.


    We shall return to the subject of the elections and analysis of the results tomorrow, including what it might mean for the leadership of the Centre Party.
    Helsingin Sanomat
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise
    I thought it was only Americans who use the designations of 'un-American' or 'not true American' when labelling their political rivals opposites. Unless the previous parties were all Swedish...

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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    I thought it was only Americans who use the designations of 'un-American' or 'not true American' when labelling their political rivals opposites. Unless the previous parties were all Swedish...
    You don't know what you are talking about, so I forgive you for that.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Finns
    Unless 'True Finns' is Finnish for something else...

    It's quite simple really. Nationalist party, calling themselves 'the real finnish people'.

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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Finns
    Unless 'True Finns' is Finnish for something else...
    True Finns is not Finnish for anything, its English. The real name of the party is Perussuomalaiset.

    It's quite simple really. Nationalist party, calling themselves 'the real finnish people'.
    I said you didn't know what you were talking about.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri View Post
    I said you didn't know what you were talking about.
    I'm guessing your purpose with this thread wasn't just to let us all know that a small nationalist party got some votes, in a newscaster style...but to actually spark some discussion about them, how you will do that, when both of your replies in this thread are saying "you don't know noob" without explaining or shedding any light...I don't know.

    So pray tell? What is there to understand, which voids my point? :hmmm:

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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    I'm guessing your purpose with this thread wasn't just to let us all know that a small nationalist party got some votes, in a newscaster style...but to actually spark some discussion about them, how you will do that, when both of your replies in this thread are saying "you don't know noob" without explaining or shedding any light...I don't know.

    So pray tell? What is there to understand, which voids my point? :hmmm:
    When you don't know what you're talking about, a humbler attitude and words such as "could you please" work miracles. Or, you could back your baseless accusations, by for example: finding one instance where anyone from the True Finns calls anyone else "un-Finnish" and you could try to find out that the name of the True Finns isn't really True Finns. It's just an English name that's there abouts correct.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri View Post
    you could try to find out that the name of the True Finns isn't really True Finns. It's just an English name that's there abouts correct.
    dude, you own ing thread's title uses "True Finns", what do you expect? Finnish isn't the most used language in the world you know.

    now assuming wiki link is correct (since i can't seem to find an official english site for this party), the "True Finns" believe in the following doctrine,

    National conservatism,
    Finnish Nationalism,
    Populism
    Agrarianism

    and it's also right-wing.

    so i dont see anything Kb8 said was wrong.
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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Considering....

    a) I'm English
    b) The forum is English
    c) Your article is in English
    d) You put the name of the party in English

    You can understand my confusion. No problem though I will comply.

    and you could try to find out that the name of the True Finns isn't really True Finns. It's just an English name that's there about correct.
    1) According to the google translator...
    Perussuomalaiset = True Finns

    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri View Post
    finding one instance where anyone from the True Finns calls anyone else "un-Finnish"
    2) By calling themselves 'the true Finns', the implication is clear. "Move aside you scummy parties! we're the true Finns... right wing and nationalist!". It's a very common attitude amongst the 'patriotic' nationalist parties and indeed there supporters, as demonstrated daily by people on this forum in the pit.

    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri View Post
    So it would have been understandable if kb8 had asked before jumping to conclusions.
    For the record, I ran it through google translator...it's been pretty reliable in the past.

    He said that they think they are real Finns and others aren't, that they call others un-Finnish, etc, both which are false.
    Think is the keyword here. The implication of the 'True Finns' name, is that they actually think it, else they would have chosen a different name. I never said they said those exact words specifically.




    There's my explanation, could you please explain yourself? I gather you support/sympathetic to them, thus are defensive when such comments are made? Otherwise it seems pretty anal you'd hang on the point that they don't speak Finnish...
    Last edited by Каие; October 27, 2008 at 03:25 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Oh, Snap.


  11. #11

    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    i am gonna start a Fake Finns party tomorrow.
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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    i am gonna start a Fake Finns party tomorrow.
    LOL- I think I can muster up support for a Plastic Paddy Party.
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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    That "Fake Finns" party would conflict with my papers for the Dorsal Finns Party.

    Seriously --

    @Wilpuri -- what is the purpose of your thread. I am curious.

    Edit: posted with your post -- sorry. I should have more patience.

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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    Seriously --

    @Wilpuri -- what is the purpose of your thread. I am curious.

    Edit: posted with your post -- sorry. I should have more patience.
    My purpose? To inform of yet another defeat for the established parties and the emergence of new alternatives in European politics, I suppose.

    I just hope Soini doesn't end up dying in a car-crash.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri View Post
    My purpose? To inform of yet another defeat for the established parties and the emergence of new alternatives in European politics, I suppose.
    So umm. What does this new alternative offer to the whole political scene?

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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    well by your own claims wilpuri you can't make any opinions on any political sitsuations that arn't in Finland.
    according to exarch I am like
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Good for Finnland then, let us hope more and more people across EU will open their eyes wilder and won't let leftards lie anymore!!!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Looked at this in more detail. It's a crappy translation. I presume the translator would have difficulty translating a Klingon text from the original Romulan.


    Two paragraphs are worthy of note.

    Healthy culture

    Kunnan tukeman kulttuuritoiminnan tulee Perussuomalaisten mielestä olla tervehenkisiin The municipal-sponsored cultural activities will be the basic view that the Finns have a healthy spiritual
    suomalaisiin arvoihin perustuvaa. Finland-based values. Kunnan ei tule tukea rahallisesti sellaista kulttuuritoimintaa, joka The municipality does not financially support such a cultural activity, which
    on suomalaisia perhearvoja tai kristillisiä arvoja loukkaavaa. Finns have family values or Christian values offensive.

    Do I read this as saying that municipalities cannot fund cultural activities that offends the party's definition of family or Christian values. Avant-garde artists and playwrights, gay groups, atheists and any other religious groups, other than Christian and many other groups would be cast out? Anything with nudity, swearing or just about anything the party decides is un-Finnish is fair game.

    What does "suomalaisiin arvoihin perustuvaa" mean and why is it heathy?

    Foreigners begging discipline, whatever that is.

    Why only comment on foreign beggars? Should they not deal with all forms of vagrancy? Why is this paragraph strategically placed by the refugee policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by KaerMorhen View Post
    Good for Finnland then, let us hope more and more people across EU will open their eyes wilder and won't let leftards lie anymore!!!
    Erm.. isn't most of Western Europe conservative???????
    Last edited by mongrel; October 27, 2008 at 05:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    I fail to see the point of this thread. A nationalist/Socialist party in an almost entirely homogenous country grows in support. Surprise, surprise. And Wilpuri, you aren't exactly leaving a lot of room for discussion here, if there even is a discussion to be held.
    Last edited by Dr. Croccer; October 27, 2008 at 06:15 AM.
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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Re: Finnish municipal elections: True Finns on the Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Croccer View Post
    I fail to see the point of this thread. A nationalist party in an almost entirely homogenous country grows in support. Surprise, surprise. And Wilpuri, you aren't exactly leaving a lot of room for discussion here, if there even is a discussion to be held.
    I wouldn't call them a nationalist party, exactly. They have nationalists in the party, but overall a very mixed bunch.

    I was hoping to generate some discussion on the general trend we've been witnessing elsewhere in Europe: namely, the rise in "right-wing populism" as it is termed by the media/their opponents. This development is evident in pretty much every EU country, to one degree or another.

    If correcting someone's ignorant assumptions means limiting discussion, then yes, I would like to talk substance instead of using this thread to educate mongrel and kb8 on Finnish politics. Discussing general trends, with these elections as an example, would broaden the scope of discussion and may be the two aforementioned gentlemen wouldn't spend all their time making themselves look silly in their ignorance.
    Last edited by wilpuri; October 27, 2008 at 06:20 AM.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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