High Era Roman Empires

[Gwyn ap Nud]

I'm a bit confuzzled here. There are two factions in the High era campaign, One of which says it's the Empirium Romanium or something like that, the other is the Basilicus ton Romaion. Forgive my spelling, but what, officially, were these two states?

I need to know for this AAR I'm doing...

[SicilianVespers]

I'm a bit confuzzled here. There are two factions in the High era campaign, One of which says it's the Empirium Romanium or something like that, the other is the Basilicus ton Romaion. Forgive my spelling, but what, officially, were these two states?

I need to know for this AAR I'm doing...

Imperium Romaniæ = The Latin Empire

Basileia ton Romaion = The Byzantine Empire

[Gwyn ap Nud]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. That was sorta confusing. I thought it was the Latin Empire, but just wasn't that certain.

[SicilianVespers]

You can always find the English name in the faction description on the faction selection screen.

[Draco Borealis]

I noticed also the Turkish Sultane of Rum; four states one ortodox, two catholic and one muslim all claiming to be the one and only Roman Empire...
XIII century was indeed interesting period.

[Otto von Bismarck]

Turks claimed that title because they wanted to have the heritage of the Byznatines/Romans.

[Draco Borealis]

Turks claimed that title because they wanted to have the heritage of the Byznatines/Romans.

I've seen nice touches in Bizantine building list like roman roads, public baths and hipodromes good to see that unlike in MTW 1 this fraction has Roman rather than Russian feel. Still I'm waiting for mods showing the empire before the schism, Arabic Jihad and Heraclius reforms.

[SicilianVespers]

I've seen nice touches in Bizantine building list like roman roads, public baths and hipodromes good to see that unlike in MTW 1 this fraction has Roman rather than Russian feel. Still I'm waiting for mods showing the empire before the schism, Arabic Jihad and Heraclius reforms.

Patience

[Otto von Bismarck]

I've seen nice touches in Bizantine building list like roman roads, public baths and hipodromes good to see that unlike in MTW 1 this fraction has Roman rather than Russian feel. Still I'm waiting for mods showing the empire before the schism, Arabic Jihad and Heraclius reforms.

Very good ideas, they should be implemented somehow.

[Mattress]

I've seen nice touches in Bizantine building list like roman roads, public baths and hipodromes good to see that unlike in MTW 1 this fraction has Roman rather than Russian feel. Still I'm waiting for mods showing the empire before the schism, Arabic Jihad and Heraclius reforms.

This makes me drool with anticipation. I can wait for sure, but I'm just loving being able to jump into this multiple eras. It makes it feel like I'm rockin a time machine.


There was a post about the paved roads. I think that's a good idea, I'm not sure of the extent of the roads system. I know it was grand, but by certain times wouldn't parts have fallen into disrepair?

For example, after the sacking of Constantinople in 1204, and the chaos that insued, do we think that they maintained the road systems to the full extent? Probably not.


Is there detailed information on the maintenance of the empires transportation system before/after the 5th century? I'm just thinking with the amount of land loss, and constant warfare....attriution to the road system had to be a factor.

The roads do help ALOT for moving your stacks quickly though. I wish I could put taxes on the roads.

[Zmaj od Noćaja]

Just something interesting - in medieval times, almost no one built paved roads (not in good quality Roman fashion, anyway), so you should have paved roads from Rome to Constantinople and through Anatolia to Holy Land, and from Rome through France and Spain (italy of course..).

[SicilianVespers]

As you know, there are some Roman roads in southern Italy and the Balkans. This is what we settled on after doing the research.

If someone can provide reseach that paved Roman roads were still beinf used in other areas, please post it.

[Zmaj od Noćaja]

As you know, there are some Roman roads in southern Italy and the Balkans. This is what we settled on after doing the research.

If someone can provide reseach that paved Roman roads were still beinf used in other areas, please post it.

Well, lots of serbian historians wrote about that - for example Fajfrić, or some other - Veselinović etc. But if you can't acquire these books, which by the way are on serbian language, then you have to rely on logic and some previous mod researchers.
First - logic. When Friedrich II Barbarosa (or Frederick; hope I spelled it right) went on crusade, he wanted to get in Holy Land ASAP. Therefor, it makes sence that he would use the paved roads, which led (in Serbia) from Belgrade, through Naissus (today Niš), then through Makedonia and finally to Thessalonika (which was on the road network). Serbian Župan, Stefan Nemanja wanted to use the presence of the HR Emperor, so he forged an alliance with him, that was to happened after crusade. Byzantines first offered safe passage for HRE, but then started to attack them on the main roads. Frederick then layed siege on some towns in Serbia and Bulgaria, and took them from Byzantines, but shortly returned them after the peace treaty was signed. Byzantines escorted him to Asia Minor, where he "misteriously" drowned in the river...much part of today's Serbia was under the Byzantium then, leaving the Serbia/Raška without paved roads, which made Serbia tough to conquer, but not as important as it was later...

Second - previous mod researchers. In my opinion, by far the best historical accuracy, was seen in Europa Barbarorum. Their choice of towns and historical background for almost everything, made this mod not only fun, but also something one can learn from. In EB, both Niš and Belgrade (with it's names in Roman, of course) were on map, because of their importance, and the road which had to go through these towns traveling further to Constantinople.

As I said, I have many literature about this paved road, but it's all in Serbian, and I don't know if it's of any use to you. Everything I said here can be "investigated"

Cheers!

[SicilianVespers]

I think you misunderstood me. I know where the Roman roads were. I am looking for which one were still in good repair, and being used.

I know for sure the roads in S. Italy and from Durazzo (?) to Constantinople were still good.

[Zmaj od Noćaja]

I just told you - the road from Venice led south and went by Adriatic sea, and in another direction through Zagreb/Agram (I suppose), Belgrade, Niš to Thesalonika. In medieval Frederick II Barbarosa used paved road from Belgrade (I know for sure) to Ionian sea, where ships transported him to Asia Minor. So what part was not clear??
It's true that road by Adriatic existed, but Belgrade - Thesalonika was much more important and USED in medieval!!

[SicilianVespers]

I just need to do more research before I add more paved roads. Can you point to sources in English or Italian ?

[DaVinci]

If we add paved roads, then it should be just only 'Old Roman Ways' for ds, and not as constructable.

@ Zmaj od Noćaja
We know, that the Romans had a huge network of paved roads, and where these roads were.

Second - previous mod researchers. In my opinion, by far the best historical accuracy, was seen in Europa Barbarorum. Their choice of towns and historical background for almost everything, made this mod not only fun, but also something one can learn from.

What you say here sounds to me as you would think or argue, those old roads were in a similar capability and condition as to the old Roman times, and that we should add them all

People seem to forget they were built about 1200 years ago.
Certainly, very seldom, there was enough money, skill and motivation or also the rights, to repair those long-range roads in the splitted realms of the middleage. Latest at the beginning Dark Ages, all Roman constructions weren't any longer in the focus of repair. East-Rome (Byz) were certainly the last ones who looked after them here and there (mainly, perhaps some Italian City states, too, to maintain the trade), but also those surely never could provide/keep these roads in a real good condition as they were originally.
If Barbarossa and other long-range campaigns used old Roman roads, then because they were the most senseful connections from point A to B, nothing else, that's logic.
But this doesn't mean automatically they could be in a similar condition, not at all. This means, we can't add all Roman roads that existed in the ancient times, if we wanna reflect historical accuracy.

[Zmaj od Noćaja]

If we add paved roads, then it should be just only 'Old Roman Ways' for ds, and not as constructable.

@ Zmaj od Noćaja
We know, that the Romans had a huge network of paved roads, and where these roads were.

What you say here sounds to me as you would think or argue, those old roads were in a similar capability and condition as to the old Roman times, and that we should add them all

People seem to forget they were built about 1200 years ago.
Certainly, very seldom, there was enough money, skill and motivation or also the rights, to repair those long-range roads in the splitted realms of the middleage. Latest at the beginning Dark Ages, all Roman constructions weren't any longer in the focus of repair. East-Rome (Byz) were certainly the last ones who looked after them here and there (mainly, perhaps some Italian City states, too, to maintain the trade), but also those surely never could provide/keep these roads in a real good condition as they were originally.
If Barbarossa and other long-range campaigns used old Roman roads, then because they were the most senseful connections from point A to B, nothing else, that's logic.
But this doesn't mean automatically they could be in a similar condition, not at all. This means, we can't add all Roman roads that existed in the ancient times, if we wanna reflect historical accuracy.

No offense, but historical accuracy isn't about what you think, or what anyone thinks! There are facts, and about paved roads the facts are that they did last until medieval, and they were used!! I'm going to re-check again on this, but I'm almost certain that NO ONE built roads, especially not paved roads in medieval (for example Poland had none)!!! Why did romans the only ones to build paved roads? Because you need stability and time to build them (among other conditions).
Dirt roads that the game offers, are crap (pardon my english)!! Dirt roads existed everywhere for centuries. Those were often-used transitions. But, paved roads were in good condition - how can they not be? There were shaped rocks put in the ground. Infantry and horses were walking over them, not trucks.
Anyway, here in Serbia, I've seen some paved roads that Turks built in 15th century - and they are still in solid shape (it handled cars, trucks, buses..).
I said my opinion, you don't have to listen to it, but those were facts. Do what you wish.
best of luck.

[DaVinci]

There were shaped rocks put in the ground.

Mate, paved roads that the Romans built were real constructions with a sub-basement and binding stuff between the stones plus reinforcements at the edges. - It is not the frequence on these roads or the weight of the frequence that "worked" on them and causes real destruction, it is mainly the weather and the nature in the whole.

... historical accuracy isn't about what you think, or what anyone thinks! There are facts, ...

Btw., we are modders who work on historical shaped mod projects since 2005.

Anyway, you've put a light on an area, reminding us to improve something, no doubt, thanks for that.
Honestly, a mod can always be improved, it is in principle the nature of a mod ( or for any game, otherwise there weren't modders ).
And therefor we have the suggestion and feedback thread (always sticked), so people can help us to improve released mods, because we don't or can't know everything.

I just took a look, and found that Charlemagne the Great (as the quasi western Roman successor leader) was probably the last souvereign for the Frankish realms, who had a real sharp focus on the existing trade roads, respectively mainly the old Roman ways. I've a list of these main long-range trade connections, and will list them soon in the dev forum as discussion base. Because, there are no reliable sources (for me atm.) in how far they were still worth to be called constructed paved roads in the known Roman manner. In principle, we would need an in-between road type (between so-called dirt roads and Roman roads).

And hey, the Turkish road is built in the Renaissance, a completely other time with a far advanced science status about engineering and architecture. Especially concerning the static of constructions, and then "only" 500 years old, not around 1000-1400 years (Roman roads). It is really a wonder, that for example, the first paved road constructed by the Romans (the Via Appia) does exist still today.

[Zmaj od Noćaja]

Mate, paved roads that the Romans built were real constructions with a sub-basement and binding stuff between the stones plus reinforcements at the edges. - It is not the frequence on these roads or the weight of the frequence that "worked" on them and causes real destruction, it is mainly the weather and the nature in the whole.


Btw., we are modders who work on historical shaped mod projects since 2005.

Anyway, you've put a light on an area, reminding us to improve something, no doubt, thanks for that.
Honestly, a mod can always be improved, it is in principle the nature of a mod ( or for any game, otherwise there weren't modders ).
And therefor we have the suggestion and feedback thread (always sticked), so people can help us to improve released mods, because we don't or can't know everything.

I just took a look, and found that Charlemagne the Great (as the quasi western Roman successor leader) was probably the last souvereign for the Frankish realms, who had a real sharp focus on the existing trade roads, respectively mainly the old Roman ways. I've a list of these main long-range trade connections, and will list them soon in the dev forum as discussion base. Because, there are no reliable sources (for me atm.) in how far they were still worth to be called constructed paved roads in the known Roman manner. In principle, we would need an in-between road type (between so-called dirt roads and Roman roads).

And hey, the Turkish road is built in the Renaissance, a completely other time with a far advanced science status about engineering and architecture. Especially concerning the static of constructions, and then "only" 500 years old, not around 1000-1400 years (Roman roads). It is really a wonder, that for example, the first paved road constructed by the Romans (the Via Appia) does exist still today.

I know about Turkish roads, I just said it as analogy. But I'm telling you that in medieval the roads weren't built at all!! The only Paved roads that were used, were from roman period, I mean you don't need to trust me - just ask some historians in your surrounding - school or university...

Just now this - the fact that we're talking about paved roads, and not some bigger issues, makes this mod great! Also I'm pleased to know that people who work on this mod are perfectionist, who want to correct even the smallest flaws!! So the best thing about this mod is Great modders! What ever you decide considering roads - it's ok by me, not such a big issue. So great job once again!!