Irritating script

[RPK]

So I'm playing this campaign with the Syracuse greeks, have taken all of Syracuse, Crete and Cyrenaica. Great mod, I love it, great so far, except for one thing which irritates me.

As you probably understand this is pretty early in the game, well, I haven't done very much because I have been too busy establishing myself and my economy, so maybe's it's not that early.
I'm already at war with the independent greeks, so I head for Rhodes. Lay siege to the 1-unit army present, click end turn, then boom!, a full stack emerges at the city, with pretty elite units too. Huh, probably something to preserve the independent greeks in game to balance it out or something, I thought, and left Rhodes with my army because I didn't think Rhodes were worth that effort yet, battled with Carthage at that time too.

Then, some turns after I take Cyrenaica from another half-assed stack of Independent Greeks, the Ptolemaioi lay siege to me there. However, that is quite understandable, as they have been pushed out of Judea by the Seleucids and I'm just a weak(but wealthy) nation and they're desperate. Made me lose my alliance with Rome though, ugh.

However, this is were the irritating script occurs. I train a full stack of high-quality troops, Phalanglites, some hoplites for flank protection, some Cretan archers, you know, the usual. I decide to strike down their main stack and take Alexandria, which would cripple them hopefully beyond recovery.
I lay siege, press next turn. Boom!, a full stack with Basilikon guard and good quality phalanglites and etc pop up, along with the script message.

Ok, I also think this is a good idea as far as preserving the factions and irritate blitzers(not one of them), but a full stack of elites is a big boost early in game against a little faction like me, or against anyone. My army is obviously outgeared, and it feels a little weird that the ptolemaioi would gain a boost by a matter of which city I attack.

I know why it's there, and I agree, but could it be toned down a notch?

[Red]

All faction Capitals( I think) get this script, except for you, and yes it can be annoying. But that is pretty much why it's in the game, not so much to slow you down, but to try to represent a faction desperately trying to defend its capital.

If I have my stories right Rhodes did this to drove the Macedonians away and used the metal salvaged from the siege engines to construct the Colossus, though I'm going off the top of my head so that may be completely wrong.

And I agree, the last minute defenders shouldn't be some of the best units you will ever face.

[Barend]

In my recent GCS campaign I landed a stack near Carthage, but did not besiege them. But they did spawn a stack of elite defenders. I always thought this was only the case if you would besiege a city.
And allthough it's more historical (last restort defence when threatened) it's also a lot harder since I wasn't really planning on taking the city until I had enough spies to open the gates for me. What would happen if you just camp outside a city while you are on the move? Wouldn't it make things a little unbalanced with all these scripts firing ?

[RPK]

Just a quick question before i resume my campaign, if they march out the existing stack of Alexandria, will another stack spawn if I lay another siege?

[Barend]

There s already a thread about scripted garrisons, you could try there for all your questions.

Here's the link http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...light=garrison

[RPK]

Haha, seems I shouldn't have been so worried after all:

[Scutarii]

The script only activates every 4 turns I think, so you can lift the siege and if you siege again within the four turns the script won't fire.

These scripts are, IMO, a very good idea. It prevents the player from going for the jugular in the early game and killing an AI faction by taking their capital. You have to learn to build up before taking the capital. And, actually, in an Syracuse campaign, go for Africa after Sicily, taking Cyreneica just gets you involved in the east. Carthage's stack that spawns is pretty easy to beat (some civic troops (no cavalry) plus a couple of Sacred Band units).

[RPK]

The script only activates every 4 turns I think, so you can lift the siege and if you siege again within the four turns the script won't fire.

These scripts are, IMO, a very good idea. It prevents the player from going for the jugular in the early game and killing an AI faction by taking their capital. You have to learn to build up before taking the capital. And, actually, in an Syracuse campaign, go for Africa after Sicily, taking Cyreneica just gets you involved in the east. Carthage's stack that spawns is pretty easy to beat (some civic troops (no cavalry) plus a couple of Sacred Band units).

I have decided to take a couple, maybe all settlements from the Ptolemaioi(Except Alexandria, will save that cookie for later), and then go full out on Carthage, as the Carthaginians has turned their attention to me now, after finishing off the Iberians. They have besieged Lilybaeum with a force of elephants and some skirmishers, which they probably will assault with and then just send all their elephants to die in the boiling oil.

Will probably be a challenge to face them now as they have so many settlements, but it'll be fun. Luckily I don't have to worry about outside interference, as the Seleucids(who are my allies) are busy with both Parthia and Baktria, the Romans just started what might be a very long war with Scythia, and my other allies Macedon are fighting Pontus.

It's like the factions are pairing up with eachother.
And oh yes, I use toggle_fow.

[Scutarii]

Sounds like a fun campaign. My Syracuse was far less challenging... Once I secured Sicily + Kydonia, I built up a couple 3/4 stacks and secured Africa in around 6-10 years, and then attacked Rome from S. Italy. Had a bit of a tough fight on my hands there, but they had been hemmed in enough for my 2 stacks to kill them off. Then I stopped playing as 5.8 came out, but I was preparing for an invasion of Greece.

[lankylars]

I totally agree with and understand the "mustering of a last defense thing", but it really irritates me that these garrisons get two-plus silver chevrons of experience. If the cities really are arming citizens, they should be inexperienced.

[Scutarii]

I think a lot if people are posting these problems too early in the campaign. We want the script to be unmanageable in the early game to prevent crippling an AI nation early in the game. By the late game though, the script stacks should be fairly easy with lvl.3/4 units. This effect is exaggerated in a provincial campaign, where it takes longer to get on your feet and producing decent units.

[RPK]

I think a lot if people are posting these problems too early in the campaign. We want the script to be unmanageable in the early game to prevent crippling an AI nation early in the game. By the late game though, the script stacks should be fairly easy with lvl.3/4 units. This effect is exaggerated in a provincial campaign, where it takes longer to get on your feet and producing decent units.

Well, I have never really enjoyed features which are almost entirely anti-blitz, at the cost of realism and such, maybe because I've never enjoyed that play style. When I play, I try to mimic a real faction, not a war machine.
Not saying everything should adjust to me, I'm obviously part of the minority, but what it is that people find interesting about this type of play style? I know some get a kick out of the challenge, but doesn't it get old fast? My TW-playing friends always tell me like "Doh, you're on turn 150 on an M/M campaign with Romans and haven't beaten them yet?", as if it was some way to measure your peen. Ofcourse I would have been able to beat them on round 150, but what's the hurry? VH/VH campaigns where all bots attention are on you, and they have more hp on their units just doesn't make sense to me.

Anyway, just rambling, sorry.

[lankylars]

@RPK, I agree wholeheartedly. I like realism, so anything that gives the AI some crazy boost is no good in my book.


On the note of the AI founding monuments and their bonuses, is there a way to distribute the bonus among many monuments in varying cities? This way, if the capital is captured, it hurts them but wouldn't remove all of their bonus at once.

[Balikedes]

@RPK, I agree wholeheartedly. I like realism, so anything that gives the AI some crazy boost is no good in my book.

Well, it also isn't very realistic for a leader to ship an army across the Mediterranean to lay siege to the capital of a large faction, or small one for that matter. These types of excursions usually do not end well. It will certainly change the way you structure your incursions and who you pick a fight with though, it did with me.

The Siege of Rhodes was quite real though.

I think the bonuses are tied specifically to the faction and the city they hold and cannot be disseminated.

Though I think that is kind of a realistic consequence for losing your capital. Could you imagine if you lived back then and the biggest, strongest city you grew up near fell to the enemy?
IMO it would be completely disheartening....

[Scutarii]

I think the script is actually quite realistic. If you think of the Sieges of Numantia, when Ptolemaios III sieged Seleukeia, and others, you'd see they didn't fall without a fight (and Seleukeia didn't fall at all, neither did Rhodos, Numantia held out for two seiges). I don't think a large city would just give up like the AI does, the citizens would arm themselves (which is particularly well-represented in the Carthage garrison script, lots of citizen units like at Zama).

[htismaqe]

This thread is kinda funny, at least to me.

The garrison scripts are one of the things that drew me to XGM in the first place.

While my campaigns on vanilla RTW and BI were certainly fun, the ease with which I was able to conquer huge cities like Constantinople and Rome was pretty unrealistic...

[RPK]

This thread is kinda funny, at least to me.

The garrison scripts are one of the things that drew me to XGM in the first place.

While my campaigns on vanilla RTW and BI were certainly fun, the ease with which I was able to conquer huge cities like Constantinople and Rome was pretty unrealistic...

Still, a stack of elite soldiers popping up with the explanation that the people are rising to fight is also pretty unrealistic.

[htismaqe]

Still, a stack of elite soldiers popping up with the explanation that the people are rising to fight is also pretty unrealistic.

I don't see it that way at all. Alot of large ancient cities used reserve garrisons that could be called up in an emergency - highly trained soldiers that were not in the active military for various reasons (retired, employed in civil service, bodyguards for aristocrats or royals, etc.).

[Zarax]

Carthage's sacred bands were such an example.

[Kara Kolyo]

I fail to see what's the problem with the script - 4 spies or 1-2 catapults negate it...