Rap Music Debate [Caradog vs Attilavolciak07] {fini}

[Senno]

Attilavolciak07 has accepted Caradog's challenge on the merits of rap music. Caradog con, and Attilavolciak07 pro.

Link to Commentary Thread.

[Desperado †]

Attilla? I have my work cut out.

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Rap.

I simply cannot see how it can compete with Classical (Thats Baroque, Classical, Romantic and Contempary), Rock, Jazz and all other brilliant forms of music.

Lets brake it down. How 'musical' is Rap? How much is Rap about the Music?

Some Rap lyrics are brilliant, and some are brilliantly perfformed. But I feel most of rap is ego bragging. It's big names in designer clothes with bling and fast cars and women. How much is it about the music?

People do classical music because they love it. Why else would people still be playing, out of date music from the 1700s? Because it is brilliant. This stuff has been around, and its stayed and is still played around the world today. Not because its cool, but because its good, musical, brilliantly composed music.

Rap, tends not to have much skill in it. After the lyrics have been made, which tend to be terrible, you just need a computer and your done. What is the point? Where is the creativity? Classical music you must work down to every single note. You must feel the music, the vibrations of the reed in your clarinet, or the shake of the vibrato on the violin string, or the tone of a flute with its haunting noise.



How much atcual music has been put into this? Apart from his singing and a very repetitive guitar rift, this is barely music. Its obviously nearly all been edited on a computer, to enhance it. This is not music, its computing. How much creativity has been put into it apart from the lyrics? Barely anything.

It's like comparing piece of computer art, for example



With this

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It simply dosen't compare. One, like a classical piece of music, has had hours upon hours of work put into it by one man alone. Wheras another, can be made quite easilly with a few clicks of buttons. At the most it would of taken a few days. Same goes for rap. Apart from the lyrics, all it takes is some money and a computer to make a song and enhance your voice. No skill needed. What is the point?

The Classical Artwork/Piece of Music will probablly be remmembered for hundreds of years, as it allready has. Wheras the Rap piece/computer art will be barely known whithin 50 if not forgotten, and barely sung again.

What makes rap worse is the terrible, expensive music videos that come with it. Why do you really need a video to music? Its music! They are overpayed for, and too much effort is put into them, often more than the atcuall song and performance. If somethings good music, you shouldn't really have to see the video for it.

Pure art is the best. Be it music or art.

I like to hear a live performance with barely any technology needed, and be concentrating more on the beautfy of the piece, its composing and performance, rather than the ego of the composer.

I don't want to listen to a piece of computerised crap, via the internet, which barely has any skill or effort put into it and is more about the names of the artist and his clothes and bling and style (outside of the art now, his style and slang he uses e.t.c).

[attilavolciak07]

Lets brake it down. How 'musical' is Rap? How much is Rap about the Music?

Rap--of course rap's musical. The texture, the harmonic progressions and the relations between the words and the music. Rap's rhyming lyrics and monotonous beat. How is this not musical? Rap is a way to express poetry at a much funner way then the classics, the energy and feeling as you rhyme words and feel the rhyming is exactly what it's about. In classical poetry it spans too many syllables, whimsicals if you will, but in rap you can create many large blocks of rhymes and this is why it's adored.

Rap isn't about the bling or the women, take Rakim for example:

I came in the door, I said it before
I never let the mic magnetize me no more
But it's biting me, fighting me, inviting me to rhyme;
I can't hold it back, I'm looking for the line.

Rakim incorporates metaphorical content in his rap, some rappers make their whole songs of just similies. Alliteration, assonance and internal rhyming, what's not musical about this? These are some mechanics even your adored Classical poets incorporate.
Rap when it's performed uses speed and cadence. MCs stress certain words and make right on with the beat. Rakim for one followed the melody in the song making it sound like the flow of an instrument. For the rapper to have a good rap, he needs breathe control and ennunciation.
Adding all these elements, how can you say rap isn't musical? If all you have to say is that it's all about the women and bling, all I have to say to that is, you've been watching too much MTV and stereotypes.

Oh, and one of your Youtube videos is "No longer avaliable".

[Desperado †]

Rap--of course rap's musical. The texture, the harmonic progressions and the relations between the words and the music. Rap's rhyming lyrics and monotonous beat. How is this not musical? Rap is a way to express poetry at a much funner way then the classics, the energy and feeling as you rhyme words and feel the rhyming is exactly what it's about.

Rhyming is not musical. The rhythym can be musical, but there is not variance in the pitch of the rapping.

In classical poetry it spans too many syllables, whimsicals if you will, but in rap you can create many large blocks of rhymes and this is why it's adored.

Where on about classical music, not poetry. I'm not that much a fan of classical poetry, but where on about music here. If I'm right, apart from in songs (which are diffrently written to classical poetry) poetry was not used with classical music.

Rap isn't about the bling or the women, take Rakim for example:

He is an exception. Most rappers are on about bling or women, or at least most big time rappers.

Rakim incorporates metaphorical content in his rap, some rappers make their whole songs of just similies. Alliteration, assonance and internal rhyming, what's not musical about this? These are some mechanics even your adored Classical poets incorporate.

Once again we are talking about classical musicians not Poets.

[attilavolciak07]

Rhyming is not musical. The rhythym can be musical, but there is not variance in the pitch of the rapping.

I'm not talking about just the rhyming. The lyrics, the delivery. The speed, cadance and prosody. I also talked about the literary technique which is incorporated by worldplay and alliteration to be specific.

He is an exception. Most rappers are on about bling or women, or at least most big time rappers.

Sure, the rappers on MTV.......

Rap has a bad reputation. You may think it's all about bling or women, some of it is but most of it is not. However rap plays a huge role, providing the voice to todays generation, as well as representing their dreams and angers. Rap is just that powerful. It inspires people.

Once again we are talking about classical musicians not Poets.

Sorry about that, it is meant to be 'music', mistyped it.

[Desperado †]

Sorry to cut our argument short, and I also feel stupid for going back on ym word on this.

I have decided on two things, after much research.

Firstly, that I do not hate all Rap. I have recently heard much good rap. I see now that there is a lot of crap rap, and also that a lot of rap is baddly steroetyped. But then again, I know many people who see Classical Music as old and boring and with no rhythym.

Rhyming is not musical. The rhythym can be musical, but there is not variance in the pitch of the rapping.

I have decided against this. I am going back on my word.

Today, I heard a Somalian Poet*, reciting poems. I talked with him afterwards also.

Somalian Poetry, is almost unique, and like my native tongue, Welsh, it has a special part of it which makes it so.

In English, and most European languages, Poetry (and Rap) is made up mostly of the use of rhyming, syllables, and sometimes alliteration. To me, this was never quite 'music', despite the shape and flow of the words.

Welsh, Somalian and some other languages, also have a metre, or a Cynghanned. This takes it too a whole new level. It uses complex alliteration and rhyming and reppeting of the ends of words e.t.c in the middle of one line, and makes it sound brilliant. It is subtle, but simply gives the words a ring. I can't fully explain it, as it is very difficult. It is very hard to produce this in some languages, such as English, but I listened to some of my favourite English poems and realised this technique is half used in them.

And I have come to the conclusion, that really, yes, this is music. Whilst listening to this Somalian Poet, say his poems in Somalian before they where translated afterwards, I realised that I trully loved hearing it despite not knowing what he was saying. A bit like you can love hearing a song even though you aren't listening to the words.

So, through further research and thinking on Attila's point, I have come to the conclusion that Rap Is Music. It's a shame, that a lot of it is crap, and it is thus stereotyped badly.


*The Somalian Poet was Maxamed Xaashi Dhamac 'Gaariye'. He was the first person to trully explain how the Somalian metre works and why it sound so brilliant.

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Senno, I guess you can close this thread.

[attilavolciak07]

Fin, I guess.

(shakes Caradog's hand)

[Desperado †]

Fin, I guess.

(shakes Caradog's hand)

*Kicks Attila in the balls and runs back to his classical music recital

Shakes Attilas hand.*

[Каие]

Debate over.

Caradog concedes and accepts rap as a true music form.

attilavolciak07 victory.