The best melee infantry! (teutonic order excluded)

[Wintersun]

Hello!


Since I've been playing alot of the suggested factions lately, I have decided to come back for more advice. The main question is best described by the following:

When I play Rome Total War I love Germania because of their naked (sorta!) Barbarians that just charged in carelessly and went into "berserker" mode, killing untill there was nothing left to kill. Yes, they were sickly overpowered, but it was bleedy awesome to destroy the armies of rome, so well organized, in such a manner like this.

While it is my understanding that this "berserker" 'trait' has been removed from the game, and no such unit truly exists, I want the second best. Awesome military infantry! Infantry that bows to no man and kicks arse!

My immediate look went to norway, I checked out their hirdsmen, but they do not seem to be very good at all despite their heritage - for shame!


So, which faction has the strongest infantry? Aside from the Teutonic Ritterbrüder, as I hate the Teutonic order for other reasons.



-Wintersun
ps,

Unrelated to the above. I looked at the Egyptian faction, what makes it good? All of their units seem to be complete underdogs to any other faction, is their strength in numbers and not individuality? why are they worthwhile?

[Geleco]

Egypt's cavalry (Mamluks and bodyguards) are one of the best cav units in the game. Though, they don't have many late era units. As for the melee infantry, I'm not sure.

[TheLastPrivate]

Egypt's strength comes from good position and economy and availability of troops. Not to mention mamluks wield AP weapons.

[ShockBlast]

Hello!


Since I've been playing alot of the suggested factions lately, I have decided to come back for more advice. The main question is best described by the following:

When I play Rome Total War I love Germania because of their naked (sorta!) Barbarians that just charged in carelessly and went into "berserker" mode, killing untill there was nothing left to kill. Yes, they were sickly overpowered, but it was bleedy awesome to destroy the armies of rome, so well organized, in such a manner like this.

While it is my understanding that this "berserker" 'trait' has been removed from the game, and no such unit truly exists, I want the second best. Awesome military infantry! Infantry that bows to no man and kicks arse!

My immediate look went to norway, I checked out their hirdsmen, but they do not seem to be very good at all despite their heritage - for shame!


So, which faction has the strongest infantry? Aside from the Teutonic Ritterbrüder, as I hate the Teutonic order for other reasons.



-Wintersun
ps,

Unrelated to the above. I looked at the Egyptian faction, what makes it good? All of their units seem to be complete underdogs to any other faction, is their strength in numbers and not individuality? why are they worthwhile?

You hate the Teutonic Order?I don't like you ... .
Infantry factions....
The HRE has high and late good infantry - Dismounted Imperial Knights(AP maces) and Dism. Gothic knights and they have the most powerful cavalry in the game, the Gothic Knights
Depending on the mod you use you might get access to Ritterbrüders.
Scotland for their pike units,good in melee too.
Venice has a good hammer unit,The Venetian Heavy Infantry and don't forget about Venetian Archers.
Aragon has a good infantry,an AP unit and decent archers.
Both Denmark and Norway are good don't just compare states and don't forget to look for the AP stat(witch is one of the most important).

Egypt has good AP calvary and very good position.

[Wintersun]

Thank you for your replies. So far they have proved to be most helpful. But, I am a bit blank, what does "AP" mean?

[Landwalker]

AP is Armor Piercing, i.e. has the trait "Effective Against Armor". I'm not certain, but I believe this trait causes the unit to ignore half of its target's armor value to defense.

Cheers.

[Nightbringer]

actually, lithuania has a unit with the beserker trait, it works exactly like in rtw and is just as broken. i wish that unit was gone, cant remmember what its called

[Wintersun]

actually, lithuania has a unit with the beserker trait, it works exactly like in rtw and is just as broken. i wish that unit was gone, cant remmember what its called

ouch! it's imperative someone tells me which unit this man is refering to, I certainly would like to figure this one out as I just tried creating a game where I used up all of LIthuania's melee units in a brawl against sicily's peasents. Did not find any such berserker, though!

[frederickm]

ouch! it's imperative someone tells me which unit this man is refering to, I certainly would like to figure this one out as I just tried creating a game where I used up all of LIthuania's melee units in a brawl against sicily's peasents. Did not find any such berserker, though!

have you ever tried full peasant armies? Peasants are now 100 stack now.
Use cheats if it takes too long to train.

[frederickm]

Egypt has from my experience the best cavalry, it is definitely one of the best factions. The Cavalry is quite powerful and whats more is, they don't require too high tech tree to build thus they can appear on your frontline easily and you'll be using cavalry far more than any western nation.
Their infantry apart from the axe guys are numbers only.

I think you should consider Turks, however the Janissary heavy infantry have really really high req to build. But they are no doubt the most powerful, against both cavalry and infantry. However it would be a waste to just charge them and would be impractical for a Turkish faction.

IMO you'd want to play something like the Russian factions, lots of heavy inf, low tech, early on, relatively good. When a horde of druzhina surrounds a town, you just know theres going to be pillaging going on.

However playing Novgorod/Kiev means the factions around you like Lithuania and Cumans(not so much) have that characteristic in their roster as well, eventually you'll turn to Russian cavalry adv and gunpowder.

[Iscariott]

For an early campaign, Norway is where it's at for infantry. Even their archers make decent work of spear militias. Shieldwall also looks cool, which is a plus.

[Nightbringer]

the beserker unit has cudgels, i remmember that

[Wintersun]

I can't seem to find this so called berserker unit, much to my distress, for I'd certainly like to try something along those lines, as it's quite what I'm looking for. Can anyone help me find this Lithuanian berserker? My conclusion is I'd probably need a sub-mod of sorts as I cannot find the unit in the "original" unit roster, and believe me, I have tried almost every single melee unit.

[speedyvm]

Hello!

When I play Rome Total War I love Germania because of their naked (sorta!)...

So, did you like those barberians because of their skills or because they were naked? (just a joke)

on topic:
I can't give you an answear to your question, but I can help you to find the answear by giving you a link that it will enlighten you and give the propers answear(s) of what you want. Here it is: http://totalwar.honga.net/faction.php?v=ss6 (here you can find all informations about any unit of every factions you want in this mod). Of course if you find your patience and the good moral.
Anyway, let me give you another advice- I don't think that the key of this game (and this mod) is to have the best melee unit or infantery or every other units, it is important the tactics that you apply, the mix of units that you use, economy, the way you expend your empire, diplomatic matters and a lot more things that I will let you to discover them. This is the beuty of this game, that's why there are so many diversified factions.

Egypt's cavalry (Mamluks and bodyguards) are one of the best cav units in the game. Though, they don't have many late era units. As for the melee infantry, I'm not sure.

Indeed, a very powerfull cavalry, maybe too much powerfull.
Currently, I play Order of Knights Templer campaigne, I've defeated sultans over sultans (all of them over 7 stars commanders) and many egipt generarals, their armour is just too strong. I have spent many resources and succeed to exile them only to one province in the south of Arabian peninsula (a region with a city called Mecca- I just know that they like that place). Of course I made them my vassals, hope they will not betray me, because that means the end of the Egypt faction and also the and of campaigne.

actually, lithuania has a unit with the beserker trait, it works exactly like in rtw and is just as broken. i wish that unit was gone, cant remmember what its called

You made me very cursious, my friend, I've heard that is an interesting faction to play, I will try it for sure, not only because of these units, even some people belive that these units weren't so realistic. My opinion is differnt, just think about- "what is so unrealistic of recruting that kindof unit in those times beeing so fanatic and droged (or drunked) soldiers and, of course very strong that will slaughter everything that stays in their sights?"

I can't seem to find this so called berserker unit, much to my distress, for I'd certainly like to try something along those lines, as it's quite what I'm looking for. Can anyone help me find this Lithuanian berserker? My conclusion is I'd probably need a sub-mod of sorts as I cannot find the unit in the "original" unit roster, and believe me, I have tried almost every single melee unit.

I don't think that you need a submod. You should wait to get all units even in the late era to see if you can really find the unit you want. Or just look in this list http://totalwar.honga.net/faction_un...s6&f=lithuania.
I looked in the list myself, there are no berserker unit, but I've found 2-3 units with powerfull, deadly attack skills and low defence, after all, this was all about, the berserker units had these characteristics.

[Wintersun]

So, did you like those barberians because of their skills or because they were naked? (just a joke)


I don't think that you need a submod. You should wait to get all units even in the late era to see if you can really find the unit you want. Or just look in this list http://totalwar.honga.net/faction_un...s6&f=lithuania.
I looked in the list myself, there are no berserker unit, but I've found 2-3 units with powerfull, deadly attack skills and low defence, after all, this was all about, the berserker units had these characteristics.

I've tried starting a custom battle playing as the lithuanians and made sure to include all eras but it would seem such fabled unit does not exist. And to clarify! I certainly liked the barbarians because of their skill and not their nakedness! hah!



As for Egypt and their powerful cavalry. I disagree, their Khassaki's are no match to the Turk's Quap-- something. Nor the french Lancers.

[Spartan90]

Ah yes, brings back memories of those incredible Hounds of Culann in RTW. Running in no formation (unless you call a blood-drunk rage a formation) into a tightly-packed, organized Roman legion, absolutely ripping apart the 'civilized' soldiers, turning the battlefield into a carpet of Roman blood and dismembered limbs...

Anyway, I got no idea about this mysterious Lithuanian berserker unit, but I still reminisce about those barbarians in R:TW...

[TheLastPrivate]

No zerker units in M2TW. There are units that NEVER rout, such as Forlorn Hope (locked morale).

[TheLastPrivate]

I don't think Egypt can be described as "Best cavalry ever".

But the rate and period when mamluks are pumped out, it easily triples the cavalry power any other faction. MAYBE Poland (AP galor), but they suffer from terrible economy at first...

[Wintersun]

I don't think Egypt can be described as "Best cavalry ever".

But the rate and period when mamluks are pumped out, it easily triples the cavalry power any other faction. MAYBE Poland (AP galor), but they suffer from terrible economy at first...

So the strength of the Egyptians lay in their ability to simply "horde" units as opposed to any other faction? that was my first thought as well but couldn't seem to get it confirmed anywhere.

This is the same for genoa, yea? that they horde units like mad?

Back on topic:

I have come to agree with the above posts. There's no such thing as the best melee infantry, having tried it myself, the best candidate was; "Templar Knights" they are the best one on one infantry out there, after them, either of Jannisarry heavy inf, and Giltine's chosen, and other armour piercing two-handers.

So, what I'd like to know now, would be simple suggestions as to what faction to be playin'. A lá some of the first responses I got here. I'm not too big a fan off the Teutonics, I simply don't like their very linear unit style and next to no gunpowder (save for the bassilisk).

So, without trying to be too open and vague, can anyone point me toward a very hectic, very action packed campaign with lots of possibilities and of course - a unit roster that won't limit me to pumping out one type of unit untill I have serveral armies full of em.

[TheLastPrivate]

Putting 2 infantry units 1 vs 1 in custom battle is hardly ever a reliable measure of the unit's utilty, let alone infantry strength of a faction. Same goes for other units too.

Just because Khassaki can't beat quapukulu 1v1 doesn't mean Egypt's cavalry is lacking compared to the Turks. Quite the contrary in fact, that quapukulu/sipahi lancer is the only option for turks while Egypt get ghulams/mamluks/royal mamluks/khassaki. By the time quapukulu comes out, Turkish late-game roster would have already evolved into infantry-heavy army that relies less and less on heavy cavalry. Egypt on the other hand gets smooth upgrades throughout the game and remains a cavalry power till the end, while its infantry tends to remain unchanged for the most part.

Some things to consider:

1) As faction A, who will I be fighting? What kind of units? For example, pumping out lots of Zwei Handers and Dism. gothic knights will look great but will be obliterated by polish AP cavalry that can be recruited from lvl1 and 2 stables.

2) When is this unit available? What are the tech requirements? SS6.1 teching is SLOW. I mean it. All buildings are built slower and population grows slower. If it comes out from a King's stables or royal barracks, don't expect to see it in the first 120 turns or so.

3) Does the unit have sufficient support to utilize its strength to the maximum? (ex: Jan. Musketeers are the best gunpowder infantry in the game. But Genoese gunpowder setup will defeat Janissary army due to having pike support - something turks lack. The strength of Jan.Muskets cannot be used to its full potential due to the turkish roster, sadly)

4) Cost efficiency: self-explanatory.


As for faction recommendations, I think I'd be suggesting HRE due to its great roster (albeit poor archers), territory that ranges from Alsace to Italy to Denmark to Hungary which leads to versatile course of action and many, many wars.