RTW guide Updated v2.5.2

[Yojimbo]

Hey there as some of you may know I've been working on a RTW unit guide.

Just a note to say I've updated v2.5 that now has printing allowed

This updated version has the entire BI version done and allot of additions and corrections to the RTW section. it has unit cards added to make it look better and more pictures. Its 38,843 words now.


V 2.5 20 November 2008 38,843 words. Wrote all the tactics for the BI section, some 15,000 words, expanded the general unit tactics to cover formations and abilities and added other things like weapon ranges and ammo amounts, fixed numerous typos and errors, added more mercenaries and added mercenary locations Added unit cards to unit descriptions.

V2.5.2 20 November 2008: Fixed typos and minor errors

Enjoy

EDIT: I'm currently fixing the margins problems ill be uploading a new version in an hour or two.

EDIT2: The margins and such are fixed and its ver 1.3 now. check it out and comment people!

EDIT3: Ver 1.3.3 is up Added more information and corrected quite a few errors.

EDIT4: Updated this post with the new version info.

EDIT5: Updated version again

EDIT6: And again

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Good work - I'll move this to Battle Planning.

[Entropy Judge]

I'm starting this at 0935 ... I'm going to go through the entire thing, and adding suggestions here, so someone may post something before I do. This will include any proofreading errors I catch as well.

* In the glossary, Artillery does not exclude long-range archers (elite archers' range is only 10 less than Ballista, for example); perhaps change it to include only equipment-based units?

* If you have CA meaning both Chariot and Cavalry Archers, why do you have Horse Archer later on?

* According to Severous in his AARs, routing units also offer 1/5 the XP the unit normally would; whether you wish to include that is up to you.

* Severous also states that casualties in the army as a whole, not just the individual units, can cause morale to lower in the remaining units (eg, killing off the Peasants in an army can lower the morale of the Principes).

* RE: Proximity to General: Unless it has a lot of morale penalties.

* You should make a note somewhere (at least, I didn't see one) about the "Armor" rating in the units being already included in the "Defense" portion of the unit statistics.

* Numidian Legionaries are Numidia's only decent *infantry* unit.

* I would add in something about the Legionary Cohort being the most cost-effective unit in the game - they are (aside from SS Legions, who cost slightly less).

* Legionary First Cohort: "Legionary First Cohorts are tough o kill." Missing the "t" in "to."

* Illyrian Mercenaries have slightly less defense (8 vs 11) but two better attack than Heavy Peltasts (7 melee and 9 missile). One could say that they are equal to the HP, if not better.

* It is "Peltast," not "Peltest."

* In the Peltast entry, first line you say "are much like veleties."

* Keep the stats standardized: Once you hit "Skirmisher Warband," you go from Attack, Missile, Defense to Attack, Defense, Missile.

* Since the Defense changes for Skirmishers is the same as for Archers, I would either include the same information in their section or put the Archer section first.

* Forester Warbands carry a spear as their secondary weapon, which is why they decimate Cavalry.

* The Head Hurlers' Missile Attack is an AP attack.

* Easter Infantry: "Their attack is terrible, their defense is horrible for a melee unit, their charge is woeful," or "Their attack is terrible, their defense is horrible, for a charge melee unit their charge is terrible." Further, regarding Hillmen vs Eastern Infantry: Hillmen have better morale, so while they may die more quickly and have fewer men, they won't break as easily.

* Pikemen: Greeks don't have them. The Macedonians, on the other hand, do get "Very Long Spear" Pikemen. The Greeks are stuck with "Long Spear" Phalanx units.

* In the "Hoplite" entry, is there supposed to be more, or did the period just get left out?

* Pike units also have more men than Hoplite units.

* Under Swordsmen (section), the final sentence ("use them to plug gaps ...") isn't capitalized.

* Bull Warriors (and Scutarii, for that matter) have Pila, not javelins; their ranged attack is AP.

* Regarding the "War Cry" ability under the Naked Fanatics unit: Most Barbarian melee units have it, including the Warbands/Barbarian Mercenary units, and it is absolutely essential if you want cheaper victories. It really does make a difference; be careful using it with Berserkers, though - it triggers their Bloodlust ability.

* In the Swordsmen unit entry, you misspell "Hastati" as "Hastarti."

* RE: Axemen: The game considers Falxmen to be Axe users.

* In the Axemen unit entry, it is unclear as to whether they have the AP trait; they do not. Chosen Axemen, on the other hand, do. Further, neither the Night Raiders nor the Berserkers, despite using Axes, have an AP attack.

* RE: Cavalry: Most cavalry (of all types) have a melee attack in addition to the standard spear, which can be used by pressing the "Alt" button when attacking. If you decide to keep the unit in melee (Heavy Cavalry generally), it is normally a good idea to use this attack instead of the spear.

* "Equites," not "Equities."

* In the Cataphract unit entry, you "Of cause missiles hardly do a thing ...," which should be "course."

* In the Scythian Noble unit entry, the first sentence has an error ("name" instead of "game") and lacks a period.

* Late Generals: Armored Eastern Generals have an AP melee attack. Also, you include Pontus, but it is in fact Armenia who shares the Armored Eastern General with Parthia.

* There does not seem to be a link where it should be in the Camel section.

* RE: Chariots: Only the Scythed Chariot can run amok. Also, you include the Scythed Chariot in the Chariot Archer section.

* The melee attack of all Elephant units is AP.

* Fire Arrows and Fire Artillery also tends to be rather effective, driving the Elephants to run amok more quickly.

*What, no Yubtseb Elephants? They are supposedly fightable/recruitable, if you trek all the way up to Hibernia, where you can also fight Amazon Chariots!

* RE: Artillery: "They include the catapult like Ornagers ...," (should be Onagers); "Artillery also has a pysological effect ...," (should be psychological); all Artillery attacks are AP; Ballista range is 180, while Elite Archer Range (Cretan, Chosen, Forester, AA, Pharaoh's) is 170; (Onagers) "You should aim at dense deep concentrations of men so that you hit something and cause causalities," (casualties); Scorpion range is actually significantly higher than Ballista range - 250 vs 180.

* The Ranged Attack of the Cilician Pirates is AP, but not the melee attack.

* Balearic and Rhodian Slingers have the same range as normal Archers (120), in comparison to normal slingers' 80.

* You appear to be missing some Mercenary units:
Mercenary Peltasts (Identical to Heavy Peltasts, found in Greece/Balkans/Asia Minor)
Samnite Mercenaries (Light Spearmen, found in Italy)
Bastarnae Mercenaries (Available in the same locations as Thracian Mercenaries)
Sarmation Mercenaries (Very Powerful Heavy Cavalry unit, found in Eastern Europe)
Eastern Mercenaries (Eastern Infantry )
Mercenary Hoplites (Identical to Hoplites; found in similar areas as Merc. Peltasts)
Barbarian Mercenaries and Barbarian Cavalry Mercenaries (Identical to the barbarian units, found throughout Western/Central Europe)

[Yojimbo]

I'm starting this at 0935 ... I'm going to go through the entire thing, and adding suggestions here, so someone may post something before I do. This will include any proofreading errors I catch as well.

* In the glossary, Artillery does not exclude long-range archers (elite archers' range is only 10 less than Ballista, for example); perhaps change it to include only equipment-based units?

* If you have CA meaning both Chariot and Cavalry Archers, why do you have Horse Archer later on?

* According to Severous in his AARs, routing units also offer 1/5 the XP the unit normally would; whether you wish to include that is up to you.

* Severous also states that casualties in the army as a whole, not just the individual units, can cause morale to lower in the remaining units (eg, killing off the Peasants in an army can lower the morale of the Principes).

* RE: Proximity to General: Unless it has a lot of morale penalties.

* You should make a note somewhere (at least, I didn't see one) about the "Armor" rating in the units being already included in the "Defense" portion of the unit statistics.

* Numidian Legionaries are Numidia's only decent *infantry* unit.

* I would add in something about the Legionary Cohort being the most cost-effective unit in the game - they are (aside from SS Legions, who cost slightly less).

* Legionary First Cohort: "Legionary First Cohorts are tough o kill." Missing the "t" in "to."

* Illyrian Mercenaries have slightly less defense (8 vs 11) but two better attack than Heavy Peltasts (7 melee and 9 missile). One could say that they are equal to the HP, if not better.

* It is "Peltast," not "Peltest."

* In the Peltast entry, first line you say "are much like veleties."

* Keep the stats standardized: Once you hit "Skirmisher Warband," you go from Attack, Missile, Defense to Attack, Defense, Missile.

* Since the Defense changes for Skirmishers is the same as for Archers, I would either include the same information in their section or put the Archer section first.

* Forester Warbands carry a spear as their secondary weapon, which is why they decimate Cavalry.

* The Head Hurlers' Missile Attack is an AP attack.

* Easter Infantry: "Their attack is terrible, their defense is horrible for a melee unit, their charge is woeful," or "Their attack is terrible, their defense is horrible, for a charge melee unit their charge is terrible." Further, regarding Hillmen vs Eastern Infantry: Hillmen have better morale, so while they may die more quickly and have fewer men, they won't break as easily.

* Pikemen: Greeks don't have them. The Macedonians, on the other hand, do get "Very Long Spear" Pikemen. The Greeks are stuck with "Long Spear" Phalanx units.

* In the "Hoplite" entry, is there supposed to be more, or did the period just get left out?

* Pike units also have more men than Hoplite units.

* Under Swordsmen (section), the final sentence ("use them to plug gaps ...") isn't capitalized.

* Bull Warriors (and Scutarii, for that matter) have Pila, not javelins; their ranged attack is AP.

* Regarding the "War Cry" ability under the Naked Fanatics unit: Most Barbarian melee units have it, including the Warbands/Barbarian Mercenary units, and it is absolutely essential if you want cheaper victories. It really does make a difference; be careful using it with Berserkers, though - it triggers their Bloodlust ability.

* In the Swordsmen unit entry, you misspell "Hastati" as "Hastarti."

* RE: Axemen: The game considers Falxmen to be Axe users.

* In the Axemen unit entry, it is unclear as to whether they have the AP trait; they do not. Chosen Axemen, on the other hand, do. Further, neither the Night Raiders nor the Berserkers, despite using Axes, have an AP attack.

* RE: Cavalry: Most cavalry (of all types) have a melee attack in addition to the standard spear, which can be used by pressing the "Alt" button when attacking. If you decide to keep the unit in melee (Heavy Cavalry generally), it is normally a good idea to use this attack instead of the spear.

* "Equites," not "Equities."

* In the Cataphract unit entry, you "Of cause missiles hardly do a thing ...," which should be "course."

* In the Scythian Noble unit entry, the first sentence has an error ("name" instead of "game") and lacks a period.

* Late Generals: Armored Eastern Generals have an AP melee attack. Also, you include Pontus, but it is in fact Armenia who shares the Armored Eastern General with Parthia.

* There does not seem to be a link where it should be in the Camel section.

* RE: Chariots: Only the Scythed Chariot can run amok. Also, you include the Scythed Chariot in the Chariot Archer section.

* The melee attack of all Elephant units is AP.

* Fire Arrows and Fire Artillery also tends to be rather effective, driving the Elephants to run amok more quickly.

*What, no Yubtseb Elephants? They are supposedly fightable/recruitable, if you trek all the way up to Hibernia, where you can also fight Amazon Chariots!

* RE: Artillery: "They include the catapult like Ornagers ...," (should be Onagers); "Artillery also has a pysological effect ...," (should be psychological); all Artillery attacks are AP; Ballista range is 180, while Elite Archer Range (Cretan, Chosen, Forester, AA, Pharaoh's) is 170; (Onagers) "You should aim at dense deep concentrations of men so that you hit something and cause causalities," (casualties); Scorpion range is actually significantly higher than Ballista range - 250 vs 180.

* The Ranged Attack of the Cilician Pirates is AP, but not the melee attack.

* Balearic and Rhodian Slingers have the same range as normal Archers (120), in comparison to normal slingers' 80.

* You appear to be missing some Mercenary units:
Mercenary Peltasts (Identical to Heavy Peltasts, found in Greece/Balkans/Asia Minor)
Samnite Mercenaries (Light Spearmen, found in Italy)
Bastarnae Mercenaries (Available in the same locations as Thracian Mercenaries)
Sarmation Mercenaries (Very Powerful Heavy Cavalry unit, found in Eastern Europe)
Eastern Mercenaries (Eastern Infantry )
Mercenary Hoplites (Identical to Hoplites; found in similar areas as Merc. Peltasts)
Barbarian Mercenaries and Barbarian Cavalry Mercenaries (Identical to the barbarian units, found throughout Western/Central Europe)

Wowsers thanks tons man I didn't relize how many errors and omissions it had. you've really really helped me out! You taught me some things about rtw I didn't know as well.

This guide needed a bit more cooking and proofreading before I uploaded it methinks. it took a long time so I was eager to get the first version out there and released a somewhat incorrect one! Would you be able to proofread other versions of it too as I've said before I need to add the stuff from the two expansions and it will probably be even more error prone when its that size. Thank you so much for using your precious time to proof read my guide.

In order to your observations:


Fixed I refer to artillery as just mechanised type units now.

Because I've seen them referred to as CA for cavalry archers before and the games advisors call them cavalry archers so I thought I should include both possible meanings. I added a note to CA saying its better to call them HA to avoid confusion.

* RE: Proximity to General: Unless it has a lot of morale penalties.
What’s RE? I don’t see what you mean. Is this wrong?

I don't agree with you about the army wide casualties. I have never noticed this effect myself.

Not added under AP saying:

Note that armor is included in the unit’s defence statistic in this guide. I wanted to show armor separately as it governs resistance against missiles.

Legionary Cohorts: I don’t think they are actually the praetorian cohort just below them as 2 more attack, 2 more missile attack 1 more defence and much better morale for just 70 more. Most Phalanxes are better value too. I think massing praetorians would actually be a better deal of the top of my head. LCs are defiantly no match for them anyways.

Fixed what a silly typo I’m glad you caught it

Fixed yes it silly calling a weak skirmisher "much like" one of the stronghest ones

Fixed I didn’t notice that that section of the guide was one of the first i wrote that whyh the format is slightly different
Edited foresters I had no idea they had spears!
Which stats do you mean? the fact they are vulnerable to cavalry? I expended on the archer tactics about deploying them just in front of a friendly melee unit.

Edited head hurlers. Another thing I wasn’t aware of.

Easter Infantry: "Their attack is terrible, their defense is horrible for a melee unit, their charge is woeful," or "Their attack is terrible, their defense is horrible, for a charge melee unit their charge is terrible."
What? I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Spears aren’t really a charge melee unit they have horrible charge. I edited Hillmen tho I didn’t notice they had better morale.

I can’t believe I missed the fact their spears are longer in the guide. This is only a beta version of the guide some stuff isn’t really thoughly play tested but how I missed that is anyone’s guess. I guess I just haven’t seen pikemen vs hoplites much. Thanks for showing me

fixed the men difference being mentioned too. sheesh ill need to rewrite this section.

fixed the cap

stated explicitly they are pila

about war cry, yes I meant to go back and add it to all units that could, its added now.

holy crap...i didn’t notice they were not ap and I’ve played as Germania before. I guess I just assumed they were armor pricing because they were in mtw and didn’t playtest enough.

Fixed typos, added ap to general

Fixed chariots, added ap to elephants

Expanded elephant section. I knew about the fire attack thing but I neglected to meton it or the running amok or the “kill elephant” special ability. Its all there now.

Fixed the artillery section

The merc section is very incomplete as I need to encounter them again to add them. I meant to put a note saying it was unfinished but I forgot. I’m in the process doing a campaign now and adding in the mercs as I see them.

The chariot section is also woeful as I just plain suck with them I hate using them.

[Entropy Judge]

Wowsers thanks tons man I didn't relize how many errors and omissions it had. you've really really helped me out! You taught me some things about rtw I didn't know as well.

Hey, that's why you asked for help, right?

* RE: Proximity to General: Unless it has a lot of morale penalties.

What’s RE? I don’t see what you mean. Is this wrong?

It just means "regarding" or "referring to." So for this case, it means "Regarding the Morale 'bonus' that Generals grant, it's there unless the General has a lot of morale penalties."

I don't agree with you about the army wide casualties. I have never noticed this effect myself.

I've never really noticed it earlier, but then again, it's pretty easy to make most units rout anyway. I've just been reading a few AAR's by him and he keeps saying that.

Legionary Cohorts: I don’t think they are actually the praetorian cohort just below them as 2 more attack, 2 more missile attack 1 more defence and much better morale for just 70 more. Most Phalanxes are better value too. I think massing praetorians would actually be a better deal of the top of my head. LCs are defiantly no match for them anyways.

Praetorians have 110 more upkeep and take two turns to recruit as well. So you can not only make more of the LC, they don't strain your economy as much either. RE: Phalanxes: I don't much like phalanxes - they're too slow, restricted, and unwieldy - so I can't comment on them.

Which stats do you mean? the fact they are vulnerable to cavalry? I expended on the archer tactics about deploying them just in front of a friendly melee unit.

...? I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

What? I’m not sure what you’re saying here.

The grammar of the sentence is confusing, since there aren't any commas.

The chariot section is also woeful as I just plain suck with them I hate using them.

I hate them too, after having an Egyptian General die from his chariot apparently tripping on a rock, and my army (base-level spearmen ... Nubians, I think) almost instantly routing as a result. I completely swore off chariot use after that fiasco, and the Briton campaign I did later? Used Captain-led armies *only*. I'm starting to use them a bit in EB, but only as the Casse.

[Yojimbo]

Version 1.3.3 with your fixes and other stuff is up.

Hey, that's why you asked for help, right?

Yes I'm glad you helped me!

I've never really noticed it earlier, but then again, it's pretty easy to make most units rout anyway. I've just been reading a few AAR's by him and he keeps saying that.

I'm not sure about the routing thing routing is so contagious in rtw it would be hard to test.

Praetorians have 110 more upkeep and take two turns to recruit as well. So you can not only make more of the LC, they don't strain your economy as much either. RE: Phalanxes: I don't much like phalanxes - they're too slow, restricted, and unwieldy - so I can't comment on them.

I never though about upkeep it will be very annoying to add as its not listed in custom battles, id have to find every unit on campagin. Argh!

I lvoe using phalanx I have a big section about them, as they are a more tatical unit than most.

The grammar of the sentence is confusing, since there aren't any commas.

Oh ill have to edit that sentence next version then.

I hate them too, after having an Egyptian General die from his chariot apparently tripping on a rock, and my army (base-level spearmen ... Nubians, I think) almost instantly routing as a result. I completely swore off chariot use after that fiasco, and the Briton campaign I did later? Used Captain-led armies *only*. I'm starting to use them a bit in EB, but only as the Casse.

Geez that's never happened to me with chariots but they die so amazingly easily they are just a liability when they have generals in them.

Entropy Judge[/COLOR]]* Since the Defense changes for Skirmishers is the same as for Archers, I would either include the same information in their section or put the Archer section first.

Which stats do you mean? the fact they are vulnerable to cavalry? I expended on the archer tactics about deploying them just in front of a friendly melee unit.

I was answering that i didn't know what you meant by that. Which information?

[Entropy Judge]

I was answering that i didn't know what you meant by that. Which information?

At the beginning of the Archer section, you talk about the varying effectiveness of ranged attacks based on where the attack originates from (differing flanks, the rear, etc), and the part about only using Shield and Armor for defense. Since the same information applies to Skirmishers as well (except possibly rain; I'm not sure about that as I rarely fight in the rain), I thought either the information should be moved/replicated, or the Archer section should be moved ahead of the Skirmisher section.

I probably won't be back on until later today, but I'll check the updated version out before I come back.

[Yojimbo]

At the beginning of the Archer section, you talk about the varying effectiveness of ranged attacks based on where the attack originates from (differing flanks, the rear, etc), and the part about only using Shield and Armor for defense. Since the same information applies to Skirmishers as well (except possibly rain; I'm not sure about that as I rarely fight in the rain), I thought either the information should be moved/replicated, or the Archer section should be moved ahead of the Skirmisher section.

I probably won't be back on until later today, but I'll check the updated version out before I come back.

Ah i see i guess i should them.

Id like that i hope its error free now...

[Yojimbo]

Just a note to say I've updated v1.7 that now has printing allowed

Note: This is a upload just to allow printing. The BI section is completely unfinished and looks odd and patchy. just ignore it and use the Rome one im working on finishing it. But now you can print it out to refer to it while playing.

V.1.7: 30 October 2008 Added way more to BI section and fixed a number of errors and typos in the RTW section Removed printing restrictions after Colega complained about not being able to print. It’s a good idea anyways

[Yojimbo]

V2.5 of the PDF guide is out finally whew. First post updated. The BI section is finally done besides the mercs section.

[Yojimbo]

Actually its 2.5.2 now as I did another proofread and fixed a few more typos/errors.