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  1. #1
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    http://fabfrog.blog.ca/?tag=marseillaise

    Football Anthems by DirkBeauregard Pro @ 15.10.2008 – 08:28:00
    It was hardly the "friendly" match that it was supposed to be. For friendly, read "grudge".

    France Vs Tunisia at the Stade de France in Paris last night. 80,000 supporters, most of them Tunisian. Even during the pre match warm up, the crowd booed and hissed at the French players. As the national anthems were played, the crowd whistled and booed all the way through the Marseillaise. Throughout the match, French players were jeered at, except Franck Ribbery,a recent convert to Islam.

    So, this morning's papers are full of quotes from "scandalised" and "shocked" minisiters and sporting celebrities. How dare the Tunisian supporters boo and whistle as the national anthem is played. Even more "shocking", the majority of Tunisian fans were born in France and thus French citizens, BUT, if this generation of French born North Africans won't sing the Marseillaise, it is perhaps because they don't identify with it, or even feel part of the Republic lauded by the song.

    The Marseillaise is a stiring song, far better than our own limp national anthem. The Marseillaise is a call to arms - aux armes citoyens - it was however written with a mindset and within a social and political context that is very different from today.

    That French-born Tunisians are unwilling to sing the Marseillaise, I can quite understand. For over 130 years, the Marseillaise was sung throughout North Africa, by the French, who were the colonial power. Why should you want to sing the natioanl anthem of a former "occupying" power?

    There is also the question if "integration" - a very French idea. We are all (or should be) part of this great Republican scheme, but I daresay when you live on an out-of-town sink estate, your empmloyment prospects are zero, and all the state offers you are the same old, ineffective training programmes, just repackaged every time with new, snappy names . . . well I daresay you don't feel much a part of anything. You owe no allegience to this place you have been born, because this place has done nothing for you, however, you will owe allegience to your immediate community with all its social and racial baggage. Mind you, this does not excuse you from booing the national anthem of another country or does it? Some Tunisian supporters interviewed after the match called it "a bit of fun". It was probably no more than that, and the fact that it has become very fashionable for young North African kids to boo and hiss at the French natuional anthem.

    Mind you, for a long time, there are many of the French, who themselves would have laughed, squirmed, even apologised at the very fact that the national anthem had been played at all. During most of the last three decades it has been
    politically "incorrect" to play the Marseillaise, or even fly the national "Tricoleur" flag.

    The old red white and blue was synonymous with the far right wing "Front National" led by Jean Marie Le Pen. The FN appropriated the flag and the anthem. Strangley, the values of the Front National were diametrically opposed to the revoulutionary call to arms of the Marseillaise. The Tricoleur flag was also very un-national front. The red white and blue still has the white royalist streak in it, but it does not bare the royalist Fleur de Lys, a symbol used by the National Front.

    Then, during the last presidential election campaign, something strange happened, socialist party presidential candidate, Segolène Royal, began to sing the Marseillaise at the end of her rallies. It was strange to see the supporters even of the moderate left, ill at ease, squirming and mumbling their way through the words. The Marseilaise was for fascists or nationalists or the right and on the left, singing the national anthem was "not the done thing". Some people at the rallies and meetings looked even "ashamed" to be singing their national anthem.

    Next, along came Sarkozy, who let it be known that the Marseilaise would now be taught to all kids at primary school. Howls of indignation from some leftward leaning teacher unions - BUT, Mrs S got his way, and now they are getting to learn the Marseillaise in school just like they did up until 1968 - and thetre you have the reason for the "downgrading" of the national anthem. It was that "revolutionary" internationalist generation of 68 in their Chairman Mao and Che Guevara T shirts,who deemed the national anthem to be reactionary and out of synch with the values and events of the period. The Marseillaise was banished. The 68 generation are now in their 60,s, it is their "children" who are picking up on the Marseillaise once more - getting back what they were deprived of due to the principles of another generation.

    So, kids are learning the national anthem again. Primary school teachers aren't making a big issue of it though. They hand out a photocopy with the wores of the first verse, sing it through once and hey presto. We'll never get to the American point of singing the anthem and saluting the flag in class every day. Sarkozy is a right winger, he is a patriot, he is all out for the interests of France, he is cast in the mold of De Gualle himself, however he is no nationalist and in keeping with all Frenchmen,is very restrained in his "patriotism".

    The French are proud of their country, but they don't do the flag-waving, hand on heart, "by jingo" patriotism. The French are "closet patriots". Even as recently as three years ago, no one would have dared fly the French flag from a public building - not because they were afraid about offending ethnic minorities (as in G, but simply because they didn't want to be seen as ultra nationalists, cum fascists, and the French aren't a very "flag waving " lot anyway. They'll never turn their natioanl flag into a bumper sticker. Perhaps they should though. Perhaps the French should adopt some football style nationalism or, like one politician suggested - just give up playing the natioanl anthem at matches.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5zTq...eature=related

  2. #2

    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Throughout the match, French players were jeered at, except Franck Ribbery,a recent convert to Islam.
    Sounds about right.

  3. #3

    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauvin View Post
    Sounds about right.
    Because clearly there is a connection between the two? Oh wait, its just a journalists opinion... Bringing up the conversion to Islam thing, not the conversion itself.
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    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    When they exited the stadium, they should have been loaded straight on buses > planes > Tunisia.

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    Axeman's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    When they exited the stadium, they should have been loaded straight on TRAINS > CAMPS > SHOWERS .
    Fixed.

    But seriously , I can't stand immigrants that won't assimiliate...

    ☻/ This is Muhammad.
    /▌  Copy and paste him
    / \ so as to commit horrible blasphemy!
    If there were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence. --Bertrand Russell

  6. #6

    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman View Post
    Fixed.

    But seriously , I can't stand immigrants that won't assimiliate...
    The Borg Queen had the same problem, but there again she wasn't human.

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Roman View Post
    um, other way around.

    And we are not France. If immigrants really tried booing the national anthem at a baseball game, they wouldn't walk out of that stadium.

    Is is ok for Americans to boo the National anthem then?

    I understand that Borat survived a rodeo event where he mocked America's anthem.
    Last edited by mongrel; October 16, 2008 at 08:25 PM.
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    Axeman's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    The Borg Queen had the same problem, but there again she wasn't human.
    Resistance is futile , your uniqueness shall be absorbed into our own culture!

    In all seriousness though my deffinition of assimilation is speaking the language , contributing by getting a job and paying taxes , and not hating the country...

    ☻/ This is Muhammad.
    /▌  Copy and paste him
    / \ so as to commit horrible blasphemy!
    If there were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence. --Bertrand Russell

  8. #8

    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman View Post
    Resistance is futile , your uniqueness shall be absorbed into our own culture!

    In all seriousness though my deffinition of assimilation is speaking the language , contributing by getting a job and paying taxes , and not hating the country...
    No issue with that sir.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post

    I understand that Borat survived a rodeo event where he mocked America's anthem.
    classic.

  10. #10

    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    classic.
    He would have either have a bullet put through his head, beaten to a bloody pulp, or both if he did something like that in say, 1943.

  11. #11

    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    When they exited the stadium, they should have been loaded straight on buses > planes > Tunisia.
    Tunisia is actually a quite secular, and economically strong state.

  12. #12
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    When they exited the stadium, they should have been loaded straight on buses > planes > Tunisia.
    To be honest, that sounds about right. They are very clearly Tunisian, not French. I'm all for people keeping hold of their national identity when they move country, but being so disrespectful to your HOST country is really pushing it...

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    They are kids. The older perpetrators are the ones who should be taken seriously. Even in USA I know several kids who wont stand up during pledge of allegiance at school because they think its cool.
    That's different though (I thought only communist countries did that sort of thing actually but that's beside the point here), that's THEIR country they choose to make a statement about. This French incident is a group of foreigners, or estranged French citizens with close links to said foreigners (French-born Tunisians). I suppose it all boils down to whether you think people who support a country have more right to it than those who do not. Telling your own goverment or country 'where to shove it' is one thing, but telling someone else's, on THEIR turf, is something else.
    Last edited by Richard; October 25, 2008 at 02:33 AM.

  13. #13
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    yeah, the requirement for an ethnical cleaning is undeniable

    since the gas price is connected to the oil price though this might be much more expensive then it used to be in the good old hitler days.

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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    The requirements of an ethnic cleansing are in place, indeed. You are though looking the wrong way. :wink:

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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Boo! Hiss! @ Jacobinism.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

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    Captain Arrrgh!'s Avatar I'z in yer grass
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by wilpuri View Post
    Boo! Hiss! @ Jacobinism.
    YAR HAR HAR!!!
    Willie got in a good one there.

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    Dracula's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Hmm. As long as the french keep with these republican ridiculous ideas it will be all the way humiliating for them. They need a Versailles rule to put in order those from the dominions. If they need the french they have to bow to the french crown,not hiss at it. But the republican idealism does all the opposite against the natural state of things.

  18. #18
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    What is interesting is that the French revolution is the mother of the American one. Interesting comparisons come to mind.

  19. #19

    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    What is interesting is that the French revolution is the mother of the American one. Interesting comparisons come to mind.
    i thought it was the other way around :hmmm:
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    Plutarch's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: North-african immigrants hiss at France's national anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Arrrgh! View Post
    Too much money and importance is laid on sports.
    No wonder the elites are into eugenics, the commoners are acting like bloody morons.
    Man, I missed the Captain in my absentia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    What is interesting is that the French revolution is the mother of the American one. Interesting comparisons come to mind.
    Dare I say the Roman Republic, with its "elected" officials, and the ultimate transformation to the Roman Empire, compared to our present republic in the US? what are the odds? probably very low but you never knoooowwww. :hmmm:

    In my honest opinion, I believe that the anthem should be respected but there is little to do against someone who doesn't comply. What constitutes disrespect? I cheer "GO KINGS" at our hockey games between "land of the free" and "home of the brave," im sure some people would call it disrespectful; i call it team spirit.

    As far as the pledge of allegiance goes. I had worked in the schools for years and Jankren is absolutely right. Kids wont stand, or recite, or even be silent, because it can be "cool" to disrespect the authority at that age. I do have some problems with the Pledge, particularly the One nation under God part," which I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in. However, Ill still recite it...word for word.

    I may be rambling a bit but I guess what I'm saying is....Im a staunch Agnostic, but when I go to my friends house (who is a christian) Ill say grace with them before dinner. Or when my Catholic ex fiance's parents wanted us to come with them to mass, I would say "the Lord's Prayer." You dont have to do anything you dont want to with regards to something like this. But you dont have to be nasty about it. And what does it hurt to show some respect in someone's home?


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