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    Default Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Now I've noticed a radical change in the tone of this election since the selection of Sarah Palin as the GOP running mate. We have all noticed the change in the last week, yes it's common for elections to be negative...and dirty. But this dirty?

    I was first brought to the attention of this in a twcenter thread here, which cited this news article.

    In Florida on Monday, Palin's remarks about Obama and Ayers elicited booing from supporters. One person at a rally shouted "Kill him!" according to a Washington Post report. (It was unclear if the shouter was referring to Ayers or Obama.) A sheriff who introduced Palin at a rally referred to the Democratic candidate as "Barack Hussein Obama."

    "You know, the idea here that somehow these guys are once again injecting fear and loathing into this campaign is ... I think it's mildly dangerous. I mean, here you have out there these kinds of, you know, incitements out there — guy introducing Barack using his middle name as if it's some epitaph or something," Biden said, apparently confusing "epitaph" and "epithet."
    That was the first time I had heard of in this election, or any for that matter, when people openly called for the death of someone, whom they disagree with politically. Apart from the decadent Eastern world.



    There have also been other reports about Palin riling up supporters and getting them to genuinely hate Obama out of fear. A further account of the hate is here.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The unmistakable momentum behind Barack Obama's campaign, combined with worry that John McCain is not doing enough to stop it, is ratcheting up fears and frustrations among conservatives.

    And nowhere is this emotion on plainer display than at Republican rallies, where voters this week have shouted out insults at the mention of Obama, pleaded with McCain to get more aggressive with the Democrat and generally demonstrated the sort of visceral anger and unease that reflects a party on the precipice of panic.


    "Terrorist!” one man screamed Monday at a New Mexico rally after McCain voiced the campaign’s new rhetorical staple aimed at raising doubts about the Illinois senator: “Who is the real Barack Obama?”

    "He's a damn liar!” yelled a woman Wednesday in Pennsylvania. "Get him. He's bad for our country."



    “I’m mad; I’m really mad!” the voter bellowed. “And what’s going to surprise ya, is it’s not the economy — it’s the socialists taking over our country.”

    After the crowd settled down he was back at it. “When you have an Obama, Pelosi and the rest of the hooligans up there gonna run this country, we gotta have our head examined!”


    Such contempt for Democrats is, of course, nothing new from conservative activists. But in 2000 and 2004, the Republican rank and file was more apt to ridicule Gore as a stiff fabulist or Kerry as an effete weather vane of a politician.

    “Flip-flop, flip-flop,” went the cry at Republican rallies four years ago, often with footwear to match the chant.

    Now, though, the emotion on display is unadulterated anger rather than mocking.



    Activists outside rallies openly talk about Obama as a terrorist, citing his name and purported ties to Islam in the fashion of the viral e-mails that have rocketed around the Internet for over a year now.

    Some of this activity is finding its way into the events, too.

    On Thursday, as one man in the audience asked a question about Obama’s associations, the crowd erupted in name-calling.

    "Obama Osama!" one woman called out.

    And twice this week, local officials have warmed up the crowd by railing against “Barack Hussein Obama.”



    John Weaver, McCain’s former top strategist, said top Republicans have a responsibility to temper this behaviour.

    “People need to understand, for moral reasons and the protection of our civil society, the differences with Sen. Obama are ideological, based on clear differences on policy and a lack of experience compared to Sen. McCain,” Weaver said. “And from a purely practical political vantage point, please find me a swing voter, an undecided independent, or a torn female voter that finds an angry mob mentality attractive.”

    “Sen. Obama is a classic liberal with an outdated economic agenda. We should take that agenda on in a robust manner. As a party we should not and must not stand by as the small amount of haters in our society question whether he is as American as the rest of us. Shame on them and shame on us if we allow this to take hold.”

    But, if it were up to them, such hard-edged tactics are clearly what many in the party base would like to use against Obama.


    “They know that when McCain has taken off the Senate mantle and put the stick to Obama (celebrity ad, as a case in point), we get movement in the polls,” said Rick Wilson, a GOP consultant not working on the presidential race. “They want McCain to call out Obama — on the Fannie/Freddie mess, on Wright, on Ayers, on guns, on [the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now] — because they know that if McCain says it, it penetrates the MSM filter. ... Only McCain and Palin can really drive that message.”

    The two have begun to get more aggressive on many of these topics, with both discussing Ayers in multiple venues Thursday. The RNC is also going up for the first time with an ad featuring the former domestic terrorist.

    It was enough to stir hope that McCain may stay on the offensive, even in Limbaugh, who has often criticized the Arizona senator for working with Democrats more than attacking them. The radio host praised his sometimes-nemesis for singling out Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) and Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) as partly responsible for the credit crisis.

    “McCain/Palin fired back today in Waukesha, and 15 years of frustration is coming out joyously in the voices of GOP supporters at these rallies,” Limbaugh wrote in an e-mail, arguing that Republicans were fed up with having been portrayed as the bogeyman for myriad issues since the Clinton years.

    But to the exasperation of many in the party, Obama’s pastor, the most damning of all his associations, remains off-limits, at the express desire of McCain. Palin ignored Wright and focused on Ayers when she was asked about the two in an interview Thursday with conservative talk show host Laura Ingraham. And McCain focused on Ayers only when he was asked an open-ended question at the town hall about Obama's “associations.”

    “It is a shame McCain took Wright off the table,” lamented one prominent Republican operative not working on the race. “He is a legitimate issue, and we may look back and realize he was the issue that could have changed the race.”

    For now, though, party members don't seem to be looking back with regret as much as fearing what lies ahead.


    This has even spilled out into the lower level competitions for Congress seats. Is this a new era of hate campaigning?

    As for McCain...he's joining in. With one account [Found it] showing how a man stood up with the usual vicious false accusations against Obama, in which McCain made no move to correct him...but rather agreed.

    This afternoon, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) gave a “sharply worded” speech full of “verbal assaults” directed at Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL). At one point, McCain asked, “Who is the real Barack Obama?” A member of the crowd yelled out, “a terrorist!” McCain paused while the audience laughed at the comment, and then continued with his attack — without condemning or admonishing the audience member. Watch it:


    It is also pretty clear that the candidates themselves are very much responsible for the hate here.

    No question, there are a number of factors at play. But surely the most important one is the role that McCain and Palin themselves are playing in creating the toxic hysteria that reigns at the rallies they are running.


    Let's consider a partial list of what the McCain camp has done recently:


    • * The McCain campaign is going well beyond raising questions about Obama's association with Ayers, repeatedly insinuating that Obama is currently in league with a current terrorist.
    • * Palin has repeatedly accused Obama of "paling around with terrorists."
    • * McCain himself has embarked on an effort to paint Obama as a vaguely sinister enemy within, with lines like this: "Who is the real Barack Obama?
    • * When a McCain supporter at a rally yesterday ranted that the country is being taken over by "socialists," and called Obama and Nancy Pelosi "hooligans," McCain didn't utter a peep of protest, and basically agreed.
    • * Cindy McCain basically accused Obama of endangering her son and other troops serving in Iraq with his vote against an Iraq funding bill, even though McCain also opposed a funding bill because it contained a withdrawal timetable.
    • * Palin attacks the media almost every day, even though her supporters are abusing reporters at her gatherings.
    • * Palin attacked Obama over Reverend Wright, and the campaign didn't disavow it -- even though McCain himself said in April that his campaign supposedly wanted no part of attacks on Wright.

    But here's the most important point: To my knowledge neither McCain nor Palin has uttered a single syllable of protest as their crowds indulged their fear and loathing of Obama. It's hard to overstate how reckless and lacking in leadership this is -- and how dangerous this is, too.
    For that last bit highlighted, it seems since these developments, as shown in this twcenter thread here McCain has actually made some steps to calm it down.

    Video [1] [2] [3]

    So some of that old respectful McCain seeping through defying the madmen, I have always maintained McCain is desperate...he's getting old..this is his last chance to be President so naturally he let his principles slide in favour of mass support and in the aim of winning. But I would rather lose gracefully, then win bitterly. I guess that's politics though. While McCain is trying at least...Palin has made absolutely no mention... instead quite the contrary.

    Obama has actually made a statement himself on this whole new culture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barack Obama
    It's easy to rile up a crowd by stoking anger and division. But that's not what we need right now in the United States. The times are too serious. The challenges are too great. The American people aren't looking for someone who can divide this country -- they're looking for someone who will lead it. We're in a serious crisis -- now, more than ever, it is time to put country ahead of politics. Now, more than ever, it is time to bring change to Washington so that it works for the people of this country that we love.

    I know my opponent is worried about his campaign. But that's not what I'm concerned about. I'm thinking about the Americans losing their jobs, and their homes, and their life savings. We can't afford four more years of the economic theory that says we should give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else.


    Although McCain has apparently gone back on this and has actually seen the potential horrors and problems this would cause, Palin hasn't made taken that stance. I'm getting the feeling the sudden surge in hate campaigning is in part sparked by the attacks on Palin, to which the GOP decided to repeat in kind and worse. What is clear though is the campaign has taken a turn for the worst, and all of this is made worse with the new popularity of Youtube, and the increased media interest in this election around the world. Most of this campaigning has been justified on the grounds that they are losing and are desperate or as one commentator put it, "every time they use the personal attacks they go up in the polls" [the polls themselves don't in fact seem to agree with this stance...as Obama is leading on average by 7 points now].

    We can also try and justify it by saying the Obama supporters are just as bad, that may be true, and true too of the McCain supporters, but the issue here is not that their exists hate from the supporters, but that is sanctioned and used, and even fanned out, by the candidates themselves. It also cannot be denied that the Official Obama campaign has not resorted to such tactics as has been made clear by both Obama and his subordinates and proved by their conduct...they have had plenty of ammunition too in the various Palin affairs.




    So what do we think, should this continue.... will this be bad in the long run should Obama win? Will the hate carry on after the elections? Is it acceptable morally, and conventionally... to use such tactics?
    Last edited by Каие; October 11, 2008 at 09:55 AM.

  2. #2
    The King Of Peasants's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Indeed this campaign has gone crazy, first with the mindless attacks on Palin and now the GOP attack on the big O.
    "July 14, 2008: I think this is a case where Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are fundamentally sound. They're not in danger of going under. They're not the best investment these days from a long term standpoint going back. I think they are in good shape going forward. They're in the housing market. I do think their prospects going forward are very solid."
    -Barney Frank

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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Quote Originally Posted by The King Of Peasants View Post
    Indeed this campaign has gone crazy, first with the mindless attacks on Palin and now the GOP attack on the big O.
    I don't remember seeing news about the democrats screaming "kill" neither "traitor" to Palin.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    I'm wondering whether it is normal for it to spiral into such crap...I mean I remember Gore and Kerry ridiculed by the GOP, ridiculed or being fools...but hate seems like a new chapter altogether.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Are you kidding me? I've never seen an election where the Republicans and Democrats want to kill each other! I mean Ever since I was born this nation has become more and more polarized. I mean McCain's disdain for Obama is obvious but Obama also shows a lot of contempt too (body language)

    It doesnt matter though in 4 years we will go through this again
    Trust me both candidates if elected will be single term presidents

  6. #6

    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Quote Originally Posted by WrathofTulkas View Post
    I mean Ever since I was born this nation has become more and more polarized. I mean McCain's disdain for Obama is obvious but Obama also shows a lot of contempt too (body language)

    Did you ever think maybe it was because as you get older you can see the polarity more?

    The 2000 Repub primary was pretty raw, and the Supreme Court wound up deciding the election.

    I'm sure Dan Rather won't forget swiftboating and the '04 election.

    I'll give you this one might be a little more on the edge, but there are some raw issues voters are looking at...basically race and cultural differences....for the first time like never before in the process.

    Other than that difference I don't see things too much worse than normal this time of the election process or the country more polarized.
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

    Freedom is the distance between church and state.

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    ZaPPPa's Avatar RTR co-daddy
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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikelus Trento View Post
    I'm sure Dan Rather won't forget swiftboating and the '04 election.
    The fact that Swift-Boating worked is the reason why campaign will descent into more vile and disgusting abominations for at least a while.

    Now, if polls start to show that people are turned off by negativity and follow through on it by voting for the lesser of two negative campaigns, then we have a chance we will go back to 'normal' campaigns. Unfortunately I do not think this will happen any time soon.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Why though? The rising role of the media? Or the start of the inevitable end of the Christian conservatism thus their desperation to win?

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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    I am in favor of amending the constitution to abolish the electoral college and presidents can be chosen on the "American Fight Island". We basically vacate Hawaii, Arm the candidates and VPs, and leave them for a week. Whichever pair is left standing wins. In the instance they are too injured to take office, they appoint replacements until they have sufficiently healed.

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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Found the link I was missing earlier. edit: put into the OP.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/06/...ama-terrorist/


    This afternoon, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) gave a “sharply worded” speech full of “verbal assaults” directed at Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL). At one point, McCain asked, “Who is the real Barack Obama?” A member of the crowd yelled out, “a terrorist!” McCain paused while the audience laughed at the comment, and then continued with his attack — without condemning or admonishing the audience member. Watch it:



    Last year, McCain had a similar reaction when one of his supporter asked, regarding Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), “How do we beat the ?” McCain laughed and replied, “That’s an excellent question.” (HT: AmericaBlog)

    Also:
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the..._the_roug.html
    Last edited by Каие; October 11, 2008 at 09:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Also remembering McCain's earlier wise words.

    John McCain on public television, February 21:
    "Uh, I, I just have to rely on the good judgment of the voters not to buy into these negative attack ads. Sooner or later, people are going to figure out if all you run is negative attack ads you don't have much of a vision for the future or you're not ready to articulate it."

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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    Also remembering McCain's earlier wise words.
    More "wise" words from McCain:

    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Poor McCain, his campaign has gone Nuclear, win at all costs, every single trick in the book.

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    ZaPPPa's Avatar RTR co-daddy
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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    This campaign has become a disgrace. I hope many independents decide that they do not want to be associated with this campaign and either do not vote or vote for the least negative (clearly Obama).

    I also believe the Secret Service should set an example and arrest the next person who yells "Kill Him!" at a rally. No conviction necessary, just send a message that this is unacceptable.

    This is what you get when an bitter ex-POW and a redneck run a campaign. Disgusting.

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    The King Of Peasants's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Why though? The rising role of the media? Or the start of the inevitable end of the Christian conservatism thus their desperation to win?
    I think part of it is that the vast majority of the media is biased one way or the other and journalism is totally in the gutter, And because of that no one listens to them.

    That is only part of it the other part is I think that the democrats are pretty much owned by liberals and they're policy keeps getting further off the American people and the republicans have followed suit there really aren't any honest populist politicians out there any more.
    Basically what I have badly outlined is that pols have stopped caring about the people which polarizes people one way or the other as they don't have any unbiased reps.
    "July 14, 2008: I think this is a case where Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are fundamentally sound. They're not in danger of going under. They're not the best investment these days from a long term standpoint going back. I think they are in good shape going forward. They're in the housing market. I do think their prospects going forward are very solid."
    -Barney Frank

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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    american politics is stupid anyway....the most idiotic issues are branded about in efforts to make each candidate look like the devil's advocate.....

    having said that, gordon brown is the devil's right hand tbfh.

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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    This is as normal for elections as the growth of a child follows a pattern. Both sides want to win. Each candidate begins by running on what he/she will do. One side or perhaps both will at some point decide that the election is too close to call and then will begin attacking the positions of the other side. At some point one side will then decide they are losing and the attacks on positions become more or less attacks on the integrity of the candidate. It is possible, but not likely, that both candidates will stay on issue and only be advocates for their position.

    This does not even take into account the many advocates that are not a part of either campaign and the resources that they tend to thrown into the mix.

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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    This is as normal for elections as the growth of a child follows a pattern. Both sides want to win. Each candidate begins by running on what he/she will do. One side or perhaps both will at some point decide that the election is too close to call and then will begin attacking the positions of the other side. At some point one side will then decide they are losing and the attacks on positions become more or less attacks on the integrity of the candidate. It is possible, but not likely, that both candidates will stay on issue and only be advocates for their position.

    This does not even take into account the many advocates that are not a part of either campaign and the resources that they tend to thrown into the mix.
    Ah...it's ordinary to whip up so much hate.... death threats are thrown around? I guess you could show us this happening in a previous election.

    My point is this is something new.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    Ah...it's ordinary to whip up so much hate.... death threats are thrown around? I guess you could show us this happening in a previous election.

    My point is this is something new.
    I can't, but I can't show you a candidate as far-left as Barack Obama in a previous election either.

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    Default Re: Forget negative campaigning....it's raw hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    I can't, but I can't show you a candidate as far-left as Barack Obama in a previous election either.
    Don't be ridiculous, Obama is like our David Cameron, leader of the conservative party. As for him being the most far-left candidate in history, you've got to be kidding...you genuinely think that?

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