Originally Posted by
MasterOfNone
Are you saying that faction-(or culture-)specific mercs are possible in RTW and BI? I did not fully understand your post. If so, can you provide the code/examples? Thx.
I've just reread my post and I don't understand me either, so fair enough.
1] I'm trying to mod EB 1.1 Alex sub mod so that it produces faction specific units in the mercenary pool. And by that I mean not just units that were originally in the mercenary pool for EB 1.1 Alex but any units I add.
2] I found this link which described how to do it http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...s%2C+mercenary and procceeded to dump all the other factions UI/Unit and UI/Unit_Info files into the appropriate Merc folder, though as it turned out I ended up ignoring the first instruction, which was to add the mercenary_unit tag to the desired unit in the EDU [more of that later]
3] I then created a mercenary pool for each region [ignore the cost/replenish rates etc. They're cut and paste and adjusted for experiment] then as can you see added "restrict Seleucid" [the RTW faction slot used for Roma in EB] to the ploybian era Roman units in the Roma-Latium pool, only one of which [the Principes] had a mercenary tag in the original EB 1.1 Alex EDU. I didn't make any adjustments to the original EB 1.1 Alex EDU, ie I didn't add mercenary_unit to attributes and din't take away the mercenary attribute from the Principes. The "restrict" addition is a direct copy of what can be found in the vanilla RTW Alexander merc file.
Code:
pool Arminium-Umbria
regions Umbria
unit italic cavalry campanian, exp 0 cost 5748 replenish 0.015 - 0.025 max 1 initial 1
unit samnite infantry swordsmen merc, exp 0 cost 5414 replenish 0.015 - 0.030 max 1 initial 1
unit samnite infantry spearmen merc, exp 0 cost 3482 replenish 0.025 - 0.040 max 2 initial 1
pool Arretium-Etruria
regions Etruria
unit italic cavalry campanian, exp 0 cost 5748 replenish 0.015 - 0.025 max 1 initial 1
unit samnite infantry swordsmen merc, exp 0 cost 5414 replenish 0.015 - 0.030 max 1 initial 1
unit samnite infantry spearmen merc, exp 0 cost 3482 replenish 0.025 - 0.040 max 2 initial 1
pool Roma-Latium
regions Latium2
unit roman skirmisher velites exp 2 cost 2826 replenish 0.001 - 0.005 max 3 initial 3 restrict Seleucid
unit roman infantry polybian triarii exp 2 cost 2826 replenish 0.001 - 0.005 max 3 initial 3 restrict Seleucid
unit roman infantry hastati exp 2 cost 2826 replenish 0.001 - 0.005 max 3 initial 3 restrict Seleucid
unit roman infantry principes exp 2 cost 2826 replenish 0.001 - 0.005 max 3 initial 3 restrict Seleucid
pool Arpi-Apulia
regions Apulia
unit samnite infantry swordsmen merc, exp 0 cost 5414 replenish 0.033 - 0.051 max 4 initial 1
unit samnite infantry swordsmen merc, exp 1 cost 5767 replenish 0.010 - 0.022 max 2 initial 1
unit samnite infantry swordsmen merc, exp 2 cost 6120 replenish 0.001 - 0.005 max 2 initial 1
unit samnite infantry spearmen merc, exp 0 cost 3482 replenish 0.053 - 0.073 max 3 initial 2
unit italic cavalry campanian, exp 0 cost 5748 replenish 0.028 - 0.042 max 2 initial 1
pool Capua-Campania
regions Campania
unit samnite infantry swordsmen merc, exp 0 cost 5414 replenish 0.033 - 0.051 max 4 initial 1
unit samnite infantry swordsmen merc, exp 1 cost 5767 replenish 0.010 - 0.022 max 2 initial 1
unit samnite infantry swordsmen merc, exp 2 cost 6120 replenish 0.001 - 0.005 max 2 initial 1
unit samnite infantry spearmen merc, exp 0 cost 3482 replenish 0.053 - 0.073 max 3 initial 2
unit italic cavalry campanian, exp 0 cost 5748 replenish 0.028 - 0.042 max 2 initial 1
I then started the game as Rome, and was able to recruit all the polybian troops as mercenaries.
There are some suggestions on the forums that it is necessary to add the mercenary_unit tag to the desired unit in the EDU to get it to be available in the mercenary pool. Originally that's what I did, but that seemed only to create problems. In my experience with EB 1.1 Alex the campaign won't start most of the time if its EDU is touched, sometimes CTD, sometimes just back to the contents of the Single player screen. Clearly some adjustments can be made to the EDU without it crashing, but what exactly they are I don't know, as I've had a successful campaign launch with an adjusted EDU, then gone back to the EDU and made exactly the same adjustments on another unit type, only to have the new campaign then not launch. Leaving it in original form has always worked so far though, which is nice and easy.
Back to my example. I then exited the Rome game and without making any changes to the files started a game as the Epriotes. I put an Epriote general on a boat and sent him to Italy. By turn three he was in Latium ready to recruit Polybian soldiers. Problem was there were none there for him. And no, the Romans hadn't brought them all. They didn't have enough money to scoop up all 12 Polybian units and there was no sign of that number of troops. I also watched AI move and there was no sign of any general moving around in the Latium region. I exited, started another game as Rome, and there were all 12 Ploybian units. Conclusion; it worked. Therefore it seems to me that at least in EB 1.1 Alex that it is possible to
A. recruit faction specific mercenaries
B. recruit units that are not originally considered to be mercenary, eg Polybian units, meaning every unit in the EDU can be made available in the mercenaryrecruitment system
c. recruit units outside their time era, eg Polybian units in the Camillian era, which is when EB 1.1 Alex starts.
4] I then conducted another experiment as to whether it was possible to make mercenaries specific to more than one faction.
Code:
pool nnn-Aitolia
regions Aitolia
unit hellenistic infantry thureophoroi mercenary, exp 0 cost 3075 replenish 0.060 - 0.080 max 3 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit hellenistic infantry hoplitai merc, exp 0 cost 3036 replenish 0.055 - 0.075 max 3 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit greek skirmisher peltastai mercenary, exp 0 cost 2801 replenish 0.060 - 0.085 max 3 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit greek infantry misthophoroi hoplitai, exp 0 cost 2933 replenish 0.060 - 0.075 max 3 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit greek cavalry hippeis thessalikoi merc, exp 0 cost 7457 replenish 0.045 - 0.065 max 2 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit greek cavalry mistophoroi hippeis, exp 0 cost 5175 replenish 0.050 - 0.070 max 3 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit hellenistic cavalry prodromoithrakioi merc, exp 0 cost 6801 replenish 0.045 - 0.055 max 1 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit dacian missile peltastaithrakioi merc, exp 0 cost 3190 replenish 0.055 - 0.070 max 2 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit hellenistic infantry misthophoroi phalangitai, exp 0 cost 5085 replenish 0.040 - 0.055 max 2 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit hellenistic missile cretan archers merc, exp 0 cost 2371 replenish 0.065 - 0.085 max 3 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit hellenistic skirmisher cavalry hippakontistai slave, exp 0 cost 3222 replenish 0.050 - 0.060 max 3 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit steppe missile cavalry skuda fat aexsdzhytae, exp 0 cost 2456 replenish 0.010 - 0.020 max 1 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit hellenistic cavalry illyrioihippeis, exp 0 cost 4439 replenish 0.020 - 0.035 max 1 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit celtic infantry mistophoroi keltohellenikoi, exp 0 cost 2875 replenish 0.010 - 0.020 max 1 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit celtic infantry galatiantindanotae mercenary, exp 0 cost 7951 replenish 0.015 - 0.025 max 1 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit celtic infantry enoci curoas merc, exp 0 cost 2985 replenish 0.035 - 0.050 max 2 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit celtic skirmisher cavalry curepos, exp 0 cost 4531 replenish 0.030 - 0.045 max 1 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
unit hellenistic cavalry tarentinoi merc, exp 1 cost 7389 replenish 0.020 - 0.030 max 2 initial 1 restrict Greek_Cities, Macedon
In EB 1.1 Macedon is Makedonia, Greek Cities is Koinon Hellenon. Hopefully what this meant was that both Makedonia and Koinion could recruit in Aitolia but that the Epriotes [or anyone else] couldn't. Which was just the way it worked out when I started the 3 different games. Abundance for the first two, poverty for the last. I then tested the Epriotes in an adjoining region, Attika, which had exactly the same mercenary roster in its pool but no restrictions, and the Epriotes were able to recruit there. So I then concluded that
D. faction based mercenary recruitment can be restricted to more than one faction, though if its any more than two is possible I don't know yet.
E. That this then opens up the possibility of culture based recruitment out of the mercenary pool. Eg instead of allowing everyone to recruit mercenaries in the Greek area certain unit types are limited to Koinon Hellenon, Makedonia and the Epriotes by the simple addition of the restrict tag after the appropriate unit. Culture here means a group of factions chosen by the modder rather than the specific culture groups built into the game, but as the former can replicate the latter [or not, as the modder chooses] then the term is appropriate.
It's far too early to make any major claims about this system because the experiments I've done have been quite limited but its potential, if it can be kept stable, is significant. Effectively RTW's barracks based system for recruitment can be circumvented without indulging in garrison scripts or zero turn recruitment and without having to indulge the complexity of an AOR system. Each region can provide a certain number of troops per turn, sometimes three or four, sometimes none at all if the area has been exhausted. Certain troop types can be made available only in particular regions to particular factions, eg settlement specific Hoplites, replicating what is done with AORs. Factions can get a faster start than is possible at the moment but will also be more restricted in the medium to long term because they won't be able to spam their factions best units at one per settlement, which even with AOR systems and expensive troops leads to explosive growth in troop numbers. What I'm thinking at the moment is that most troop types would be in the mercenary pool, with a lot of faction and culture restrictions, while certain elite and specialist troops [eg cataphracts, artillery, recruitable generals etc] would be available only in barracks and would have very long build times [10-20 turns]. Again, very much a loose concept subject to a lot more thought/experimentation.
Problems. First and least, the system is entirely static. As far as I know the mercenary pool is not affected and cannot be affected by any changes in the barracks level of the local settlement, nor by the military era eg it was possible to recruit Polybian troops in the Camilian era. For me this isn't an issue as I think troop recruitment is based far too much on the stage of technology you've reached [barracks development] and how much money you have, rather than on politics [what regions you control and the nature of your political relationship to that regions culture, and the nature of that regions political system]. This is particularly the case in the Classical era, when societies were very fragmented and empires came and went very easily. To me a detailed mercenary recruitment pool based system seems to be far more realistic, a lot quicker, more balanced and given the rich variety of troop types available in EB, far more enjoyable and full of character.
Second, and foremost, I don't know how the AI is going to react to the radically changed recruitment system. I'm guessing that I'll have to make recruitable generals available earlier and more cheaply to ensure that the AI has enough places to recruit. What I am concerned about is though whether the AI, when confronted with the limited range of relatively expensive troop types in the barracks, will look to the mercenary pools, or if it will simply bang away at an elite only units recruitment system through the barracks. Can AI actions be manipulated in this regard? I'd like to have some recruitment in barracks but if I have to put all recruitment in the mercenary pools I will.
There are a couple of minor technical issues which do concern me a bit. Even when the campaign starts the screen goes blank when its loading, except for the loading bar itself. I don't know whether this is a sign of a larger issue. Secondly, when I go into the merc recruitment pool about half the added units show a peasant unit card, as in the example provided in the link above, even though I did transfer all the available files into the UI/unit/merc folder. Putting the cursor on them shows which unit type they are but it is a bit of an inconvenience and a bit ugly, though its not too big as when they're chosen for recruitment and the pool is closed the unit card appears properly in the army. Any ideas?
Sorry about the length of the post but I write fast and long. Hopefully none of its redundant. One last thing. This is very much for Alex based mods. I haven't tried it on any other game. I doubt, though I do not know, if it would work through the RTW.exe or the BI.exe even if you had Alexander installed.
Is there a full tutorial on modding ALEX.tw?
Primicerius
RTR website/SVN admin
Flame Imperishable
Miles
RTW Modder 2004-2015
It's the .exe that imposes the limitations, modders have not found a way (and probably never will) to get faction-specific mercs to work on RTW/BI executables.
Centenarius
Opifex
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