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Thread: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

  1. #41
    Xavier Dragnesi's Avatar Esse quam videre
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius



    Senators, I am sorry for the delay in this report. I have had other matters that have deemed me quite busy lately (ooc: in RL). As you can see from this, we stand to receive over 4000 denarii profit for the next season, if no soldiers of any type are recruited, and no buildings are constructed. If we are to recruit a legion now under the specifications of our Consul Lepidus, this is what the total upkeep would per season:

    2x Hastati = 500 denarii per season
    2x Principes = 500 denarii per season
    2x Triarii = unknown as we do not yet have a unit of triarii, and we cannot train them yet, but estimates around 600 denarii
    1x Equites = 730 denarii per season
    2x Rorarii = 420 denarii per season
    1x Funditores = 80 denarii per season
    1x Leves = 210 denarii per season

    This amounts to a total of 3040 denarii of upkeep costs per season, and this is not counting the recruitment costs yet. This will increase our total expenditure each season to over 10000 denarii, about equal with our income. Therefore very little profit will be able to be made. However, if we disband the legion currently residing in Rhegion, as reward for their faithfulness and great commitment, I estimate our current expenditure will decrease by a good 1000-2000 denarii, which could render the recruitment of one legion possible. But two legions, like I have said before, is not possible for us to raise and maintain.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    Well there you have it, i do not think we should bankrupt the Republic paying for that many soldiers, i say we recruit one legion and recruit a second one later when we can afford it.
    People will believe a lie because they want it to be true; or they're afraid it's true.
    Given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe its true, or because they're afraid it might be true. Peoples' heads are full of knowledge, facts and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    The Censor stands, and ask for the word.
    The report of the Quastor brings us back to a point which we have debated on before. Infrastructure of our cities. It is clear that neighbouring states and nations shall impede on our borders. We have gained ground but can not completely secure it, we need two legions for the defence of our Republic, but we have no money.
    The solution to this is simple, trade. We must increase our trade, this by extending our farms, and sending the current legion on new farms will please them and the people of Rome. We must encourage trade with the Carthaginians, show them that although we shall not allow incursions in our lands, that we have goods for them. Carthaginians will never turn down a good deal.
    We must expand the Fora, let the people spend their coin. Once our treasury is flowing full again, then we can steadily increase our forces.
    Therefore senators, I invite you all to share your views, must we concentrate our efforts on the increase of our wealth or should our aim lie elsewhere?
    Oppius sits, and awaits the response of his fellow senators.
    Last edited by Selifator; October 13, 2008 at 02:01 PM.
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  4. #44
    Winter's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    Fair enough, quaestor. While I would have liked to have seen another legion, I cannot argue with this report. Therefore I shall propose the following amendments to my legion bill:

    Lex Aurelia Miliaris

    I. The Senate shall require the raising of one additional legion of Roman citizens. The Senate decrees that the composition of the legion shall be 2 hastati maniples, 2 principes, 2 triarii, and 1 equites, along with 2 roraii and 1 maniple each of funditores and leves.

    II. Attached to the legion shall be two maniples of Allied light infantry (ie Bruttian infantry) and 2 maniples of allied heavy infantry (ie Samnite Heavy Infantry).

    III. This Legion will be stationed within striking distance of anywhere in the Res Publica;
    One in a fortress in Eutria, and another in a fortress in the Campanian plains or the Bruttian highlands. in a fortress outside of Capua. The Senate decrees that this legion must be upkept until such time as the Senate decides that their presence is no longer required.

    IV. In addition, the Senate decrees that the legion in Bruttium shall be brought home to Roma and given a hero's welcome, after which they shall be honorably disbanded and alloted farmland in Latium.
    I would also like to voice my support for the Censor's proposal. Infrastructure is a necessity, which is why I and my party believe that a sound investment in projects like ports, roads, farmlands, fora, and even civic projects like aqueducts and schools, is an absolute necessity. These projects will draw new workers to our cities, increase jobs for plebes, and greatly expand our trading power. I would ask the Censor if he has any specific plan in mind that we may implement as of now.
    Last edited by Winter; October 13, 2008 at 02:08 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Jeb View Post
    Hah, you're always so helpful to threads Winter. No wonder you got citizen!


  5. #45

    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    I do not have acces to the information right now, but as I proposed trade must be given priority serving the dual purpose of pleasing the plebs and funding a new army. The Carthaginians are certainly a good partner for this, and for now we are still in peacefull relations, so I would give priority to sea trade, land trade between our cities and farming. We should not explode our farming lands, but provide space for the veterans and goods to make us attractive for trade.
    Last edited by Selifator; October 13, 2008 at 03:43 PM.
    Every time you :wub:, god kills another kitten.
    If you're gonna hire Machete to kill the bad guy, you better make damn sure the bad guy isn't YOU!

    'I understand, and I take the light into my soul. I will become the spear of Khaine. Lightning flashes, blood falls, death pierces the darkness.' , Dhrykna.

  6. #46
    Gaius Julius Civilis's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    A messenger covered in dust enters the senate and hands a letter to the Princeps Senatus.

    Ave Senators!

    I write to you from the shores of the Messana Straits. After the Lex Lucretia de Brutii was passed I headed off south on horseback. A day later I rode into Capua.

    I had hoped to find a Carthaginian translator or trader in Capua, but when my destination became known a lot of traders became very hesitant. Provincia Brutia still has a very poor reputation even though Roman rule has been re-established there 7 months ago.

    I had no time to seek out a brave soul from the merchant’s quarters as this matter is a prime priority for the Senate. As I rode through the new province itself I could understand the merchants’ hesitation. Farms were burnt out, fields were untended, the roads were nigh impassable. With every step I could not help fearing brigands or robbers. Fortunately Roman rule was deep enough to prevent this form of crime and soon I reached my destination.

    As I rode into Rhegion a day and a half ago my faith in the future of this province was restored. The city was damaged, but the damage was superficial. The buildings that were completely destroyed during the rebellion were already rebuilt or the reconstruction was well underway. Looking at the port one would never even suspected there had been a war. Ships were sailing in and out, merchants were selling exotic goods, and slaves were rushing to and fro.

    I entered an inn and over a goblet of Sicilian wine I enquired about the location of the Carthaginian camp. I learnt it was a few miles south of the city, and I deduced it was only a small force. This new information meant my journey was almost over. I decided to have some dinner and retire for the night at this same inn.

    After an uneventful night I continued on my journey early in the morning. I went south, to the southernmost part of the province, to the southern tip of our Republic, the toe in the boot that is Italia.

    The Carthaginians had set up camp in a forest clearing, on top of a hill. The fort (if one could call it that) dominated the entire region and even provided a decent view of the city and the crossing to Messana on Sicilia. As I approached the camp some mahouts were bathing their elephants in a nearby stream. Two men on horseback rode toward me, I decided to stop and wait for their message. As they approached they shouted at me, they probably demanded me to state my business. Judging by their look and the sound of their language they were Numidians, drafted into Carthaginian service for their horse riding skills, epitomized by the famed Numidian light cavalry, mostly used for reconnaissance, but able to hold their own in battle.

    In my best Carthaginian I asked if they spoke Latin and if I could see their commander. They smiled at my effort and asked who I represented, I replied with the honest answer that I was there on behalf of the Senate and People of Rome. They nodded in understanding and led me into the camp.

    Inside the camp I dismounted and gave the reigns to a nearby slave. Some Lybians were loitering nearby. The Numidians were talking to a scribe outside a big, scarlet tent, which was quite probably the command tent. The scribe approached me and talked to me in Latin.

    “Good day, sir! What might your name be?”

    “I am Senator Marcus Lucretius Falco, representative of the Senate and People of Rome.”

    “A Roman, who’d have thought it… Now, what is your business?”

    “I would like to see the local commander.”

    “I see, but what is your business?”

    “Suffice to say that is between me and your commander.”

    “Sir, with all due respect, I really need a rea…”

    “Mago! Don’t be such a bureaucrat!” a booming voice comes from the scarlet tent. Immediately the scribe slumps, he wrings his hands and looks around with shifty eyes.

    “Y-yes sir, o-of course s-sir. Go on, enter, enter.”

    I entered the tent, flanked by two Lybians in their full panoply of war. I looked around a bit and immediately noticed a lot of scrolls bearing the Carthaginian senate seal. I also noticed the officer’s suit of armour was battered and undecorative. I reached one conclusion: this man was not a Senator, and this man was not a nobleman. This man had fought his way through the ranks and he had gotten this command of a small army to capture a small city in Italia. Now the situation had changed and he needed official senate orders for the next course of action.

    The captain himself was a man deep in his thirties. His face could have been mistaken for a poet’s being slim and almost triangular. Long black hair fell down his shoulders. His face was unshaven, but somehow his features had some dignity. He looked like a no-nonsense person, so I decided to open the conversation.

    “Good day, Captain. As you may have heard, I am here on behalf of the Senate and People of Rome.”

    “Ah yes, I expected as much. Take a seat, take a seat.”

    “Thank you. I suppose you know why I am here.”

    “I can venture a guess…”

    “As I can venture a guess as to your presence here. You landed here with orders to capture Rhegion, am I correct?”

    The Captain nodded.

    “And now that the Roman Republic has enforced its authority over Rhegion, you are stuck between an allied city and a wet place.”

    “Hmm, correct, continue.”

    “And now the Republic has a problem. A foreign army is on Italian soil, on Roman soil. If this were anything but an allied army we would be forced to retaliate in force. Fortunately you are our brothers and we do not have to resort to such barbarisms,” a sour smile formed on the Captain’s face. “However, we cannot tolerate your presence longer than absolutely necessary. My Senate has decided to give you 6 months to abandon Roman territory. If you fail to evacuate in the given timeframe, the senate may resort to any means necessary to forcibly evacuate this army from Roman soil.”

    The Captain thought for a moment. He looked out over the camp where the 4 elephants and their mahouts were just returning from their baths.

    “Fair enough,” he finally said: “I will send word to my senate of this new development, but I do not have the authority to make such decisions on my own. I cannot guarantee anything.”

    “Well then, Captain. I do hope you will be able to write some sense into your senate. My work is done, and unless you have some business with me I shall return to Rome with this message.”

    I write this from Rhegion and I will return shortly, but this news is important enough to be sent ahead to Rome.

    Vale,
    MARCVS LUCRETIVS FALCO
    Senator of Rome
    YOU ARE THE SENATE - SENATOR PROCVLVS IVNIVS VERVS MINOR - XXX
    PLEBEIAN

  7. #47
    We shall fwee...Wode's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    The Soldiers have farmland already, and to give them two pieces to oversee over great distances would be a hindrance to this men. They should share in the loot of Taras, but Rhegion should be returned unharmed to it's rightful inhabitants and none of it's farmland stolen.
    add "wick" on the end of my name.


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  8. #48
    Xavier Dragnesi's Avatar Esse quam videre
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    I congratulate Senator Falco on his discussions with the leader of the Carthaginian expeditionary force. Hopefully, the Senate of Carthage will see sense in our request, and withdraw their troops immediately. Our trade with Carthage is strong, and if war was to break out between us, I'm afraid we might have neither the troops or the monetary funds to maintain such a war. May this venture conclude in a successful agreement.

    About the land alloted to the retirements of the soldiers, the proposal of the Consul was clearly to give them farmland in Latium, and did not mention Rhegion nor Taras anywhere in that part of the proposal.

    Also, after asking around in Rome's barracks, I have managed to find evidence that we are able to to train triarii here in Rome, and the actual upkeep cost of 2 units is a total of 800 denarii per year. Which raises the total legion upkeep to about 3240 per year.
    Last edited by Xavier Dragnesi; October 14, 2008 at 03:10 AM.

  9. #49
    We shall fwee...Wode's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    We cannot afford to give our men land in Latium either (there is a one time building which grants Ager Pvblicvs for a small happiness bonus, but costs 5,000 Mnai) as the money lost to the state will hurt our coffers greatly and serves only as a politically motivated move to satisfy the plebs instead of acting in their interests.
    add "wick" on the end of my name.


    Gaivs Atilivs Balbvs - senator YATS, age 30)

    Nephew of Marcvs Atilivs Balbvs, died in battle aged 48



    The forums Monty Python nutter!


  10. #50
    Xavier Dragnesi's Avatar Esse quam videre
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    May I presume, then, that you have a better solution for the futures of these soldiers? They cannot stay as an army if we are to recruit a new legion, as the money required will be too great. Yet they cannot return to their homes gaining nothing except the experience of drawing blood in battle, after the work they have done in capturing Taras and Rhegion. Where do your thoughts lie, Senator Atilius Balbus?

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    I would remind the senator that there is no time limit on any provision in this legislation. We may grant Ager Publicvs in one season and by the next have the proper funds to begin the training of the new legion.

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  12. #52
    Xavier Dragnesi's Avatar Esse quam videre
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    I believe that this lex should be decided by motion. Debate is no longer necessary, I think.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    I disagree, these men have land and livelihoods. They also gain from Taras and the army at Rhegium the plunder their commander grants them. They are farmers who have answered the call to mobilise. They have done their job and received money to compensate their time away from the fields and have shared in the plunder. We have paid them well and now they shall return to the fields once more. Now we must think of the entire people as opposed to a few thousand of them who have been brought up into this house due to pathetic political acts which only serve to distract this house from the work that needs doing.
    add "wick" on the end of my name.


    Gaivs Atilivs Balbvs - senator YATS, age 30)

    Nephew of Marcvs Atilivs Balbvs, died in battle aged 48



    The forums Monty Python nutter!


  14. #54
    Winter's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    Whilst I would very much like to debate this further with senator Balbus, I will restrain myself in order to bring this motion to a vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Jeb View Post
    Hah, you're always so helpful to threads Winter. No wonder you got citizen!


  15. #55
    We shall fwee...Wode's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    Well, now that the senate has wisely chosen to waste it's money on giving a handful of land owners some more land at the treasuries expense, do we even have enough left to reinforce our army back up to full strength? I wonder whether the Quaestor or Consuls could enlighten the house as to this issue and his plans to spend, hopefully to better use, the remains of our money.
    add "wick" on the end of my name.


    Gaivs Atilivs Balbvs - senator YATS, age 30)

    Nephew of Marcvs Atilivs Balbvs, died in battle aged 48



    The forums Monty Python nutter!


  16. #56
    Winter's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    Senator, what you do not see is that measure was integral in rebuilding our shattered armies. I know, I would not have authored it any other way! It is also clear that a vast majority of this house agrees with me, so unless you would like to propose a motion to repeal the previous one, I suggest that you not continue to insult mine and my colleagues intelligence and honor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Jeb View Post
    Hah, you're always so helpful to threads Winter. No wonder you got citizen!


  17. #57

    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    Senator Balbus, your insults however vague you try to make them do not help at all, the motion has been passed, with a Considerable majority if i might add.

    I do however agree with you, in that we need further reports on the treasury, and what we will do from now on.
    People will believe a lie because they want it to be true; or they're afraid it's true.
    Given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe its true, or because they're afraid it might be true. Peoples' heads are full of knowledge, facts and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.

  18. #58
    Xavier Dragnesi's Avatar Esse quam videre
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    If the Senate so wishes, I could depart right at this moment to disband the legion at Rhegion, and then start making inquires at the barracks in Rome, and calculate if the proposed legion will make a sudden and fatal impact on the treasury and its income.

  19. #59
    Gaius Julius Civilis's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    I thought we had this settled, the raising of one legion would not kill the treasury?

    And anyway, this motion has just been passed, had the senator any problem with it he should have made them clear before we voted on it.
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  20. #60
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    Default Re: Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Lepidus/Triarius

    OOC: yes, but spending 5,000 Mnai could mean we can't build at full speed. As a fresh legion would cost in the region of 10,000-20,000 Mnai; a retrained one might be so expensive that no infrastructure can be built before the legion is on the budget and draining us.
    add "wick" on the end of my name.


    Gaivs Atilivs Balbvs - senator YATS, age 30)

    Nephew of Marcvs Atilivs Balbvs, died in battle aged 48



    The forums Monty Python nutter!


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