Why forgive?

[AqD]

I told my mom in dinner that we should do something with my (dead) father's brothers who threatened us for money before. But she said it's many years ago and we should forgive them and let it go. WTF is that? Why should I forgive them? They're rouges and gangsters and for so man years they didn't even try to make an apology (I'd not accept anyway since they can't fix the harm they caused). If everyone think like my mom, there would no justice and no safety in the socity at all! IMHO people like them should be removed and the world would be a lot safer without them.

What's the point of forgiveness really? If somebody made a mistake and it's acceptable, I could just forget it. But if the mistake is unacceptable, he should pay for it. I don't really see any reason to forgive anyone who made un-recoverable harms (unless they can go back to the past ).
________
Wellbutrin Withdraw

[Magic Man]

Some say the taste of vengeance is bitter sweet.

But i find it to my liking..


I think it really depends on the situation.
Alot of ''revenge'' is petty and cruel.

Thats why theres a difference between vengeance and justice.

[Mathias]

I agree that to forgive isn't always the best solution, but I don't think it is as easy as saying that when someone does un-recoverable harm, they should not be forgiven. One has to analyze every situation by itself. Under what circumstances did the person perform the action(s)? has the person changed for the better (has he done that for real)? These are the questions from which it should be determined if you should forgive or not. The focus shouldn't just be on the result of the actions.

[Ciabhán]

I told my mom in dinner that we should do something with my (dead) father's brothers who threatened us for money before. But she said it's many years ago and we should forgive them and let it go. WTF is that? Why should I forgive them? They're rouges and gangsters and for so man years they didn't even try to make an apology (I'd not accept anyway since they can't fix the harm they caused). If everyone think like my mom, there would no justice and no safety in the socity at all! IMHO people like them should be removed and the world would be a lot safer without them.

What's the point of forgiveness really? If somebody made a mistake and it's acceptable, I could just forget it. But if the mistake is unacceptable, he should pay for it. I don't really see any reason to forgive anyone who made un-recoverable harms (unless they can go back to the past ).

I have always supported an eye for and eye viewpoint on these things. My family is a bit old fashioned and we still tend to follow the old clan style of dealing with things....if you mess with one you get to deal with us all. I am not sure it is always the best way but it settles things just fine and prevents a lot of problems.

[KaerMorhen]

Vengance is good if serves you well with your goals, otherwise it is waste of efforts same with forgivness

[MasterOfNone]

An "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" refers to the law of justice and not vengeance. It means that if someone steals your car then you may justly press charges to have him compensate that loss (the cost of a new car if not another car exactly). This is often not understood and misquoted.


To me, forgiveness is very important. Being unforgiving is not only cruel in those cases where the perpetrator is truly sorry but it also eats up the person failing to forgive - with bitterness and anger; they are harming themselves ultimately more than the perpetrator's original action ever could.

I do not feel there are any exceptions. We should always forgive. However, this does not mean justice should not be satisfied - that is a separate issue.

[Dracula]

I think forgiveness is connected to love to people or humanism,smth of the kind.

[Ciabhán]

An "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" refers to the law of justice and not vengeance. It means that if someone steals your car then you may justly press charges to have him compensate that loss (the cost of a new car if not another car exactly). This is often not understood and misquoted.


To me, forgiveness is very important. Being unforgiving is not only cruel in those cases where the perpetrator is truly sorry but it also eats up the person failing to forgive - with bitterness and anger; they are harming themselves ultimately more than the perpetrator's original action ever could.

I do not feel there are any exceptions. We should always forgive. However, this does not mean justice should not be satisfied - that is a separate issue.

The idea of an 'eye for an eye' in the old justice system was a way of codifying and controlling the older and uncontrolled blood feud's that were themselves nothing more than a traditional and socially "accepted" way of avenging oneself or family. Justice in it's oldest forms is nothing more than vengence that is taken by the state for the individual.

[Frédéric Chopin]

Because retributive justice is inherently self-contradictory.

If everyone think like my mom, there would no justice and no safety in the socity at all!

There is a difference between vengeance and justice. Is such a self serving act of retribution really justice, or is it just another crime? Justice is generally defined as moral rightness based on such things as ethics, rationality, and natural law. There is no rational reason to bring about greater problems with your pursuit of 'justice,' to "make them pay." It would only bring about more difficulties. Clearly there is nothing ethical about harming another for your own personal satisfaction.

It seems to me that if everybody thought like your mom, and sought not violent revenge, but a truer justice, there would be much less need for such retribution; and it seems to me that if everybody thought like you, there would be no justice for everyone would ignore ethics for a bit of selfish satisfaction.

It may seem a bit trite, but as Gandhi said, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

[sephodwyrm]

I told my mom in dinner that we should do something with my (dead) father's brothers who threatened us for money before. But she said it's many years ago and we should forgive them and let it go. WTF is that? Why should I forgive them? They're rouges and gangsters and for so man years they didn't even try to make an apology (I'd not accept anyway since they can't fix the harm they caused). If everyone think like my mom, there would no justice and no safety in the socity at all! IMHO people like them should be removed and the world would be a lot safer without them.

What's the point of forgiveness really? If somebody made a mistake and it's acceptable, I could just forget it. But if the mistake is unacceptable, he should pay for it. I don't really see any reason to forgive anyone who made un-recoverable harms (unless they can go back to the past ).

I agree. If people know that they will face almost certain retribution, they would be more careful in their dealings.

But how would you take your vengeance on your uncles, though?
I am being nosy right now: What did your uncles do that make you so angry? It's gotta be some tale.

[Thanatos]

You can forgive, but just don't forget, because that would just be stupid.

[chriscase]

I'm not sure if this belongs in EMM or Help.

You say your uncles are gangsters. They ed with you and you want revenge.

You could go narc on them. That would probably do something, assuming they are still gangsters, but it would probably also backfire on you. Maybe even get you killed.

You could kill them. Maybe throw in a little torture. I understand that's how gangsters work things out. You may or may not survive the attempt, but if you succeed you will be a gangster too. Depending on whether what they did deserves death as a punishment - according to the code your gangster family lives by - you might survive it. But obviously, you would abdicate any right to complain about what gangsters do if you take this path.

Or you can distance yourself from the whole thing. Put yourself far, far away from it. But how to reconcile oneself to such a path? How can you make peace with yourself when someone has wronged you, and the desire for revenge is so strong? Forgiveness, I am told, is one such way. It's not for them. It's for you.

[AqD]

I'm not sure if this belongs in EMM or Help.

You say your uncles are gangsters. They ed with you and you want revenge.

I don't want revenge - I want to live without them. What they did, like most other gangsters or violent debt-collecting companies here, would at best cost them a few years in jail, nothing more. When they're released they would do the same and their existence causes fear on others. It's silly to hope that they'll change to be better - you can never be sure of this and by doing so you just put other people at unnecessary risk.

An eye for an eye is not a good solution, unless the action is acceptable (like traffic accidents etc). IMHO if someone removes an eye from you for fun, he should be removed from the world (death or jail for life). And there would be no need for forgiveness if all of these guys disappear from our world.

(If I'm not bound by the law, I'd just kill them and people like them. )


PS: my mom doesn't seek for justice. She wants only to forget it.
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Paulete cam

[Justice and Mercy]

In some cases doing something simply isn't worth it.

Your mom's smart. She worries about what she needs to worry about, and doesn't create unnecessary drama.

[D.B. Cooper]

I'll also say justice and vengeance aren't the same.

Also, why brood over something that happened years ago? In all actuality you probably won't get to exact your horrible vengeance on your uncle (?). No, it's self destructive to keep thoughts of vengeance in your heart forever when it won't amount to anything.

[Orgath]

Here's what I would do. Go buy (if you don't already own) God Of War 1 and 2 and play them nonstop for a week straight. Then just let instinct take over...

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Well, your attitude to this problem that you had is a perfect example of what would happen if no one practiced forgiveness. If no one forgave, everyone would be after each other for vengeace, revenge, and pay-back. There would be many times the amount of murders, crime and other stuff like that. I know that sometimes, stuff can't be forgiven due to the seriousness of it, but that doesn't mean the forgiveness should be abandoned altogether.

[Della Villa]

Anger is more dangerous than those people that cause the anger.

Be quick to forgive.

But how do you forgive someone that did not ask for it? I do not know.

[Jango]

Forgiveness is a virtue, don't let anybody tell you differently.

I find your approach aqd on the matter, no offense, a little cold. People do change, I doubt your uncles were criminals when they were children...whats to keep them from learning to be decent fellows? Call me naive if you wish but if I were in your position I would try to find a way to forgive them, however that doesn't mean you should not be cautious. There are some people out there that would really enjoy nothing less than to cause others suffereing.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

God is the most Beneficent, the most Merciful. Those are His attributes. We should try and replicate them as much as possible. However, He is also the most Just, hence I believe if the guilty repents sincerely, he deserves mercy. So if your uncle felt bad about what he did, he deserves forgiveness but if he died doing evil willingly, it's up to you whether you forgive him or not.