Empire Total War - AD do u intend transition?

[Destraex]

ETW is out in 3 months or so.
I know that ETW will have pikemen early on in the piece, meaning that the code for pikes and muskets will still be fully implimented.

Do you have any intentions (possible or otherwise) to transition this mod?
By that stage this MTW mod FKOC will have reached full maturity I imagine.

I am greatly enjoying this period, even though local friends I have given this mod to have commented that the uniforms are bland and the units too limited in number to chose from. This limits their interest.
They seem to miss the general non-pike units like knights and spearmen.

MOD of the year AD...... For the record I am enjoying it far more than I did Broken Crescent....

P.S. I can imagine a mod for ETW that spans from the spanish armada in 1588 to the end of the English civil war in the 1640s. That would include the swedish and 30 yrs war among others.

[JaM]

right now who knows if there will be pikes, armor and other important things for ECW implemented in ETW

[AlphaDelta]

I would like to port the mod to ETW, but that doesn't mean that I can or will. Also as Jam says there is a lot unknown about what ETW will bring, but if you ask me, I personally believe that the ETW engine is a code-update on the M2TW engine. It looks VERY similar, and I find it highly unlikely that they would have scrapped years of work over night.

So with that said, I have my fingers crossed that the model format will be identical.

Cheers

[Destraex]

excellent. Swords crossed then.

[Lusted]

but if you ask me, I personally believe that the ETW engine is a code-update on the M2TW engine.

It is not, it's a new engine, work started on Empire after BI for RTW came out. So things are quite a bit different.

[Destraex]

Lusted, so your telling me there will be nooooo resemblence or doubled up code from older total war games?

[Lusted]

Lusted, so your telling me there will be nooooo resemblence or doubled up code from older total war games?

Some stuff is similar, but do not count on simply porting mods. Most of Empire works very differently from M2TW or Rome.

[AlphaDelta]

It is not, it's a new engine,

Sorry Lusted, but I still find it impossible to believe. Why would CA develop two almost identical engines at the same time? Why wouldn't they atleast share code/components? It goes against all logical reason to develop two engines that do the exact same thing, within the same company.

work started on Empire after BI for RTW came out.

I don't doubt this, but I don't see how that fact discounts any possiblity of a combined efforts engine? It's clear that M2TW was entirely based upon the RTW engine, but we were told back then it's a brand new engine. What seems a lot more likely to me is that the 2 divisions of CA took the RTW engine and forked the code development, with one division pushing towads M2TW, and the other writing code to support 18th Century warfare. But that doesn't in anyway make it 2 different engines.

I'm sorry Lusted, but either CA has SERIOUS money and resources to burn or you are a shill helping to spread a myth.

Cheers

[Lusted]

Why would CA develop two almost identical engines at the same time?

It's part of the revolution/evolution cycle we do, first a game on a new engine(revolution), then a game on an evolved version of the engine(evolution), and then a game on a new engine(revolution) etc.

And they didn't atleast share code/components?

2 different studios. CA OZ carried on development of the RTW engine for M2TW, whereas the RTW team started work on Empire and it's engine.

[AlphaDelta]

It's part of the revolution/evolution cycle we do, first a game on a new engine(revolution), then a game on an evolved version of the engine(evolution), and then a game on a new engine(revolution) etc.

This idea doesn't wash, I'm sorry. There must be literally hundreds of man-years worth of work in the M2 engine. The development time we are talking about makes a policy that involves dumping HUGE code libraries in the bin a financial suicide.

whereas the RTW team started work on Empire and it's engine.

So the RTW team, after spending how many years developing Rome, DUMPED the engine and started again from SCRATCH? Pull the other one lusted.

Now the 'evolutionary' product (M2TW) which was based on the revolutionary code (RTW), has been released, the M2TW source code has also been DUMPED?? Insanity.

Cheers

[Lusted]

This idea doesn't wash, I'm sorry. There must be literally hundreds of man-years worth of work in the M2 engine. The development time we are talking about makes a policy that involves dumping HUGE code libraries in the bin after a financial suicide.

It's how we've done it, and it is a policy that works as it is what happened with MTW and RTW(MTW made whilst RTW also being made).

So the RTW team, after spending how many years developing Rome, DUMPED the engine and started again from SCRATCH? Pull the other one lusted.

Some parts of the code were of course reused, but yes it is a new engine, and I'm not lying to you, I'm telling you this so you don't get the idea that porting mods from M2TW will be quick and simple. Heck, I doubt it will ever be done given how vastly different some parts of Empire work. Mods will have to be started almost from scratch(apart from research, possibly some other things).

[AlphaDelta]

It's how we've done it, and it is a policy that works as it is what happened with MTW and RTW(MTW made whilst RTW also being made).

The difference there is huge though, MTW used a risk-style strat map, and 2d sprite battles. It was obviously an extension of the Shogun code. But was the RTW code written from scratch? I highly doubt it. Much of the foundation code would have been brought over from Shogun/MTW and updated as part of RTW.

Some parts of the code were of course reused, but yes it is a new engine, and I'm not lying to you,

Lusted, what do you class as an 'engine'? As someone with some experience writing OpenGL applications (terrain engines and such) I am very curious to know.

I'm telling you this so you don't get the idea that porting mods from M2TW will be quick and simple....Mods will have to be started almost from scratch(apart from research, possibly some other things).

A mesh is a mesh, a texture is a texture. Don't tell me CA has re-invented the vertex?

Cheers

[Dave Scarface]

Thank you for clearing this up for the modding community Lusted. Well that does it then, I guess non of the big mods will ever be ported over to ETW. Which may leave many people not wanting to purchase ETW at all. Many fans will stick with the major mods they love playing so much like SS, DLV, Broken Cresent etc. The modding community for M2TW is far from dead and I believe it will continue to thrive for a long time yet.

Of course there will be new mods come along for ETW. But many modders I know on these forums have told me they have no interest in this historical period. And dont want to work on this game. So I guess Empire will come out and leave much of the modding community behind.

Dave

[Lusted]

The difference there is huge though, MTW used a risk-style strat map, and 2d sprite battles. It was obviously an extension of the Shogun code. But was the RTW code written from scratch? I highly doubt it. Much of the foundation code would have been brought over from Shogun/MTW and updated as part of RTW.

Yes it was, but in terms of modding things changed vastly from MTW to RTW, much like between RTW/M2TW and Empire. Which is what I'm getting at, whilst parts of the old code has been ported over and rewritten, lot's has been redone or added in, and as far as modders are concerned things work very differently. don't go into modding Empire thinking it'll be slightly different from RTW or M2Tw, it's vastly different.

Lusted, what do you class as an 'engine'? As someone with some experience writing OpenGL applications (terrain engines and such) I am very curious to know

How the core of the game works is how I would class though it's probably hopelessly wrong as I'm not a programmer.

A mesh is a mesh, a texture is a texture. Don't tell me CA has re-invented the vertex?

It's not .mesh or .texture anymore, it's a new format.(though 2d textures are .tga/.dds).

[Destraex]

Cool Lusted. some parts are re-used is pretty much telling me most of what I want to know.
Oh and thanks for being frank with us Really its appreciated.

[Lusted]

Cool Lusted. some parts are re-used is pretty much telling me most of what I want to know.

But redone for the new engine, nothing has been straight ported, and modding works very differently.

[AlphaDelta]

Which is what I'm getting at, whilst parts of the old code has been proted over and rewritten, lot's has been redone or added in, and as far as modders are concerned things work very differently.

Ok, so it's NOT a new engine? It's using parts of the old (M2TW?) code, we are getting closer to the truth.

How the core of the game works is how I would class though it's probably hopelessly wrong as I'm not a programmer.

The core of which portion? Clearly the strat map rendering has been changed, it appears to me to be a large scale pixel map overlayed on a terrain mesh, which would explain why it has such variation.

It's not .mesh or .texture anymore, it's a new format.(though 2d textures are .tga/.dds).

A mesh is another word for a 3d model, a texture is shortened form of texture map.

There will be new formats of course, CA will be looking to protect their assets, of course they'll be cracked as .mesh and .texture were.

Cheers

[Destraex]

yep gotcha. crystal. Some parts re-used, but the paths to this code are different.
I'm just praying none of the AI code has been carried over.
WE get u sir!!! to quote starship troopers

[Lusted]

Ok, so it's NOT a new engine? It's using parts of the old (M2TW?) code, right..

No it IS a new engine, just because some code has been ported(and heavily rewritten) does not make it the same.

The core of which portion? Clearly the strat map rendering has been changed, it appears to me to be a large scale pixel map overlayed on a terrain mesh, which would explain why it has such variation.

The core of all of it, you know graphics engine, sound, physics, battle engine, campaign engine etc.

There will be new formats of course, CA will be looking to protect their assets, of course they'll be cracked as .mesh and .texture were.

Oh I'm sure they will be, but I don't know how they might differ from .cas or .mesh files. So planning on just using the same models might not be wise.

It's a new engine guys, and modding works completely differently. I'm not saying this to purporte a 'lie' about it being a new engine, it IS a new engine. I'm telling you this to help you out so you can plan accordingly instead of thinking you could just port stuff straight over. I'm a modder like you, I'm telling you this to help you out, and to give you a heads up that things will pretty much need to be redone from scratch for Empire(though I'm sure people will find a way to modify their models/textures to fit into empire).

[Lusted]

Of course there will be new mods come along for ETW. But many modders I know have no interest in this historical period. And dont want to work on it. So I guess Empire will come out and leave many of us behind.

Same thing happened with MTW when RTW came out, and RTW when M2TW came out. It's just the way mod communities work.