There's Doubt and then There's being Anal!

[hellas1]

Hi all,

These forums DO allow for free thought and opinion expression HOWEVER:

A healthy "Doubt" is quite different than wanting someone to categorize, quantify and label EVERY experience.

For example: Emotions or Emotional States

We have them, They are real BUT not measurable or quantifiable.

Another example: Aesthetics

We see, hear or feel something and we make a subjective judgement to that or attached to "that" something.

Now we reach an interesting twist of events:
Metaphysical reality and Metaphysical beings and humans.

If spontaneous healings, speaking in a foreign language one does not know or was not taught, If one sees a ghost floating across a room or one hears a voice manifesting out of "nothing" MOST people on this forum would immediately debunk it based on its' non "Scientificness."
This in my opinion is quite assanine and shows that such people have not experienced such real, actual phaenomena.

I, for one, HAVE seen a ghost floating across a room around noonish in the fall a number of years ago and disappearing. It had a wing like projection coming out of it's back, was as tall as a human, had no arms and had a torso which fanned out at the bottom resembling a dress and was translucent and light white in color (per se).

Now, How do you unconvice me of what I know I saw? Alcohol, drugs, hysteria, hypnotism, light shifting, suggestion played NO PART in what I saw as my friend also saw, or purported to see, what I clearly saw and neither of us were under any foreign or illegal substance.

In closing we see that:

1. The sensory perception(s) of a person is/are NOT the summum bonum of reality.

2. Metaphysical realities DO exist. Incidentally, both the post WWII U.S. and former USSR had psychic training programs called Remote Viewing which were highly successful. Joseph McMoneagle was Operation Stargate RV'er 001.

3. Intellectuals bind themselves up in their own world of intellectual constructs. This specifically applies to mathematicians, "philosophers", and physicists.

Glorification of the Brain and Human intelligence are WRONG!
Put the human brain in its' proper place and you'll be o.k.

hellas1

[Maverick]

I, for one, HAVE seen a ghost floating across a room around noonish in the fall a number of years ago and disappearing. It had a wing like projection coming out of it's back, was as tall as a human, had no arms and had a torso which fanned out at the bottom resembling a dress and was translucent and light white in color (per se).

The two key words there are ghost and resembling. A ghost is a manifestation of a dead person's spirit or some such, something which resembles a ghost on the other hand is free of such prejudices.

2. Metaphysical realities DO exist. Incidentally, both the post WWII U.S. and former USSR had psychic training programs called Remote Viewing which were highly successful. Joseph McMoneagle was Operation Stargate RV'er 001.

False prophet.

3. Intellectuals bind themselves up in their own world of intellectual constructs. This specifically applies to mathematicians, "philosophers", and physicists.

Ouch, philosophers in quotation marks but not "remote viewing".

Glorification of the Brain and Human intelligence are WRONG!
Put the human brain in its' proper place and you'll be o.k.

I think it's hard not to put the scientific method up on a pedestal, it did get us to the moon after all. The human brain is the only one I have! And I'm not a "disbeliever", I'm just going to suspend my judgment until more facts are in, there's no harm in that.

[hellas1]

Hi Maverick,

True, the human brain IS fascinating and powerful!

Joseph McMoneagle might be fake, BUT Operation Stargate and other psychic operations conducted by the governments of the U.S. and U.S.S.R. along with psychics hardly talked about, forget about even known, were decidedly NOT.

hellas1

[Playfishpaste]

Lol operation stargate.

There was an operation bluebook too dude.

Being anal would be "meh, you still can't PROVE that gravity is causing all this stuff falling to the earth, not 100 percent, there are some loopholes in the theory, and what about anti-gravity?"-that would be foolishly dismissing things based on over-philosophizing and over-analyzing. However, extraordinary claims DO require extraordinary evidence, if you see a torso with a wing sticking out of it floating around and were aware of ghosts beforehand and it was night time, I am not anal for saying "that was probably just you seeing things dude" or "that was probably light distorsion or psychological projection".

[Roman Knight]

Hi all,

These forums DO allow for free thought and opinion expression HOWEVER:

A healthy "Doubt" is quite different than wanting someone to categorize, quantify and label EVERY experience.

Quite right, one should always be open to different ways of seeing things, but making a hypothesis on all your experiences is in no way wrong.

For example: Emotions or Emotional States

We have them, They are real BUT not measurable or quantifiable.

You know this how? It's perfectly likely that you can mechanically explain emotions.

Another example: Aesthetics

We see, hear or feel something and we make a subjective judgement to that or attached to "that" something.

Once again, this could easily be mechanically explained, is there any reason why it shouldn't be?

Now we reach an interesting twist of events:
Metaphysical reality and Metaphysical beings and humans.

If spontaneous healings, speaking in a foreign language one does not know or was not taught, If one sees a ghost floating across a room or one hears a voice manifesting out of "nothing" MOST people on this forum would immediately debunk it based on its' non "Scientificness."
This in my opinion is quite assanine and shows that such people have not experienced such real, actual phaenomena.

Have you actually experienced this? Have you heard such things from multiple reliable sources? Or have you quickly closed your mind to the possibility of misinterpretation in a fashion that might be called hipocritical?

I, for one, HAVE seen a ghost floating across a room around noonish in the fall a number of years ago and disappearing. It had a wing like projection coming out of it's back, was as tall as a human, had no arms and had a torso which fanned out at the bottom resembling a dress and was translucent and light white in color (per se).

Has anyone else attested to this apparition? Is it completely impossible that it was something else you misinterpreted? How do you know it wasn't a trick of the light?

Now, How do you unconvice me of what I know I saw? Alcohol, drugs, hysteria, hypnotism, light shifting, suggestion played NO PART in what I saw as my friend also saw, or purported to see, what I clearly saw and neither of us were under any foreign or illegal substance.

Watch the failings of the human eye:
http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/

1. The sensory perception(s) of a person is/are NOT the summum bonum of reality.

If you have nothing outside of sensory perceptions, how can you be so sure of this? And you seem completely sure of what your own eyes see without possibly thinking they could be wrong.

2. Metaphysical realities DO exist. Incidentally, both the post WWII U.S. and former USSR had psychic training programs called Remote Viewing which were highly successful. Joseph McMoneagle was Operation Stargate RV'er 001.

Firstly, you cannot be certain of that, and that Remote Viewing, after half an hour of research, looks like BS.

3. Intellectuals bind themselves up in their own world of intellectual constructs. This specifically applies to mathematicians, "philosophers", and physicists.

That is an ill informed statement that decides scientists and non-religious people in general are against anything but what they say is right. I'm sure that somewhere, in the depths of some long forgotten laboratory there is a scientist amature who thinks like that, but in philosophy and science, free thinking and accepting ignorance are encouraged.

Glorification of the Brain and Human intelligence are WRONG!
Put the human brain in its' proper place and you'll be o.k.

Who decided it was objectively wrong, may I ask? Because I certainly won't follow the directions of a non existent deity or you, for that matter, on what I should or shouldn't do. Besides, people do not stand around praying to an idol of the human brain, but the brain should be used to its utmost extent, to make the most of a short, finite life.

[hellas1]

@Roman Knight,

You seem to assume too much my friend!

I'm no fool and I KNOW what I saw.
Incidentally, why don't you examine public sources for hauntings, ghosts, healings, etc.?

In scietific endeavors, the basic premise is to approach in a NON biased, or as with little bias as possible, and then proceed with verifying data/input.
I've given you that much (IE. my personal integrity regarding this ultra-sensitive issu).

Are you too lazy or do you expect me to do the intellectual footwork for you?

Check out these people for yourself:
Smith Wigglesworth
Kathryn Kuhlman
William Branham

I'm done sharing personal experiences with someone who is CLEARLY negatively biased before the facts. You don't know me and cannot possible know what I've been through or physically seen.

Until such a time arises when YOU experience this or a close friend or relative does, you won't believe, or unless God lets you experience this stuff.

End of story.

God bless you,
hellas1

[Roman Knight]

You seem to assume too much my friend!

I'm no fool and I KNOW what I saw.
Incidentally, why don't you examine public sources for hauntings, ghosts, healings, etc.?

One can know nothing but their own existence, and you seem to be the one assuming that your vision was right. Always approach things with doubt first and possible validation later.

In scietific endeavors, the basic premise is to approach in a NON biased, or as with little bias as possible, and then proceed with verifying data/input.
I've given you that much (IE. my personal integrity regarding this ultra-sensitive issu).

Exactly, which is why you shouldn't assume that you "know" what you saw.

Are you too lazy or do you expect me to do the intellectual footwork for you?

Check out these people for yourself:
Smith Wigglesworth
Kathryn Kuhlman
William Branham

I did do research, and the reason I asked you is because the only results were people like these, who assumed perfectly rational things were acts of god.

I'm done sharing personal experiences with someone who is CLEARLY negatively biased before the facts. You don't know me and cannot possible know what I've been through or physically seen.

Firstly, I am not biased, and if I was, it is far better to be negatively biased to something than positively biased. Also, you can't know what you saw any better than I can, and it could probably be scientifically explained easily.

[/QUOTE]Until such a time arises when YOU experience this or a close friend or relative does, you won't believe, or unless God lets you experience this stuff.

End of story.[/QUOTE]

Not really, as, unlike you, I would remain skeptic rather than cause a trick of the light to change my life completely.

[Musashi]

Again. Mentally ill persons can see and here just about anythign from God to satan. This does not prove them to be right.
Human prain is a powerfull tool and often work without intension. Expecialy in situations where people feel scared like in the dark.
Do you see the connection here? Ghost's are always seen in the dark where normally human eye based on seeing the light do not see wery well.

You are determined that what you saw whas real and that's propaply how it seemed to you. Your prain might have also exaccurated the situation and what you saw afterwards slowly prosessing the situation to be more true. Humanprain does try to make logical order in your own experiences.
Sometimes this works against you when the prain can't fully comprehend the situation.

[Portuguese Rebel]

This is me being anal... If any "psy all powerful being" out there can write the maiden last name of my diseased grandmother at his first attempt employing any metaphysical power he/she wishes i'll send him/her a 100.000 € check.

I won't hold my breath...

[Bovril]

Science is about finding mechanical corelates for experience, and that includes wacky experienes too. If you don't think this is a useful idea, get off the internet. If, one the other hand, you would like to preserve the notion that science is not the only legitimate form of knowing, then I will go along with you 100% of the way. An event like a relgious experience has nuerobiological corelates, but that doesn't mean that it's only significance is nuerobiological. If we adopted this sort of scientism its doubtful that we would be able to survive on a day to day basis.