First Impressions

[Theodotos I]

Okay, I’ve played FKoC for the last two days and come up with some interesting observations. Some may be right, others may be wrong. Anyhow, here we go.
This mod should be enough to convince anyone that we can have a gunpowder-predominant TW game. There have been those who have stated that such a game would be boring. FKoC should convince them otherwise. The gunpowder units are splendidly detailed and the AI maneuvers them with reasonable intelligence.
That said, the battles are a lot slower paced than anything TW fans have seen in the last four years—which is a good thing, in my mind. I want to be able to sit back and react to the decisions my opponent makes intelligently, rather than just throw eight hundred unstoppable knights at the problem with the assurance that they will crush anything in their way.
In playing for two days, I’ve only had one CTD, which is pretty good for a mod released so quickly. Alpha Delta deserves some real credit.
Also, after playing as the Royalists, I have become a convert of the “two factions” philosophy. Since this is the first TW mod in my remembrance to focus on a single conflict, the inclusion of only two factions in the game makes sense. I realize I was on the opposite side of the fence only a day or so ago, but that was before I experienced the game.
As well, it’s very nice to have garrison personalities. Kudos to whoever came up with that.

The difficulties I have with FKoC are mostly minor, trivialities really. Of course the lack of AI aggression is very noticeable, even with the extra money(just now downloading the new patch). As to the units, there I wish the mod portrayed soldiers such as Clarendon represents taking part in the battle of Edgehill in his 1888 book History of the Rebellion and Civil War in England. I quote, “though many of the King’s soldiers were unarmed and had only cudgels, they kept their ranks, and took up the arms their slaughtered neighbours left them. . .”

Now of course I realize we can’t represent soldiers picking up the weapons of other soldiers, but it would be nice to have some of those “rabble” in the ranks, just for the sake of history.
Also, I was surprised to see that, although the infantry are armed with matchlocks, the Cavaliers and other cavalry units wield flintlock pistols. From my reading of history, I would not have thought of the flintlock as being the most common pistol firing mechanism at the time. Am I incorrect in that assumption? The only source I could find on the topic in this brief time referred to the twelve-year-old Prince of Wales firing his wheel-lock pistol as he rode into the battle of Edgehill with the Gentlemen Pensioner’s.
Now, please, this isn’t really a criticism. After looking at the broomsticks CA gave us, seeing finely detailed locks is quite amazing. For a moment, I thought I saw them actually move when fired. . .

Also, I was surprised to see that Robert Devereux , 3rd Earl of Essex, did not have a Lethargic trait. He was hardly a grand strategist, although he understood infantry tactics and was not lacking in courage. However, his lack of energy was one of the reasons Parliament finally replaced him as Captain-General. Therefore, I think he should have a few movement restrictions on him. Obviously, traits seem to be a WIP.
Another thing I’ve noticed is that the unit description used for the Parliamentarian Lifeguard of Horse is actually the unit description for the Ironsides. Like I say, a triviality.

However, for all the imperfections I’ve outlined, this is still one incredible mod. Thanks, AD.

[AlphaDelta]

Thanks for the compliments and I agree with more or less everything you wrote.

I realised after working on BC that the old format of mod making was dead. There is a lot of talent in the TW modding world, but it's largely independent and widely scattered. There's no where near enough talent to make mods that match RTW mods in scale and depth.

Necessity is the mother of all invention. That's the approach that I took;

What does a mod need? A map, some factions, some units, some period/typical music and some artwork, targetted goals, believable ambition, LOTS and LOTS of reading and reseach (this was the one thing I did not know).

What doesn't a mod need? Large quantities of bug inducing scripts, a time span counted in centuries, units that range from pencil wielders to supermen, more factions than you have fingers on one hand, a map that covers several continents.

As to the units, there I wish the mod portrayed soldiers such as Clarendon represents taking part in the battle of Edgehill in his 1888 book History of the Rebellion and Civil War in England. I quote, “though many of the King’s soldiers were unarmed and had only cudgels, they kept their ranks, and took up the arms their slaughtered neighbours left them. . .”

I was surprised when Dux informed me of these melee armed men. I had meant to reskin the clubmen farmer unit and give it to the Royalists but it was low priority. It's something for the future.

Also, I was surprised to see that, although the infantry are armed with matchlocks, the Cavaliers and other cavalry units wield flintlock pistols.

Technically they should be using wheellocks and doglocks pistols. Wheellocks being early, doglocks being later. A doglock looks like a flintlock to you and me.

http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers....glokpistl.html

Wheellocks had been in use for quite a long time. Certainly since the mid-16th Century, probably earlier.

http://www.collectorebooks.com/gregg01/Lot-245.htm

Feel free to show your appreaciation by buying that for me. It's only 30,000 USD.

I guess by the 17th century, the idea of the matchlock was entirely out of date, but I suppose it was cheap and importantly very reliable. If the mechanism breaks, you can always physically push the wick into the priming pan.

Also, I was surprised to see that Robert Devereux , 3rd Earl of Essex, did not have a Lethargic trait.

It's true, and is something I will try to sort out for future patches.

Cheers

[Theodotos I]

Thanks for the compliments and I agree with more or less everything you wrote.

I realised after working on BC that the old format of mod making was dead. There is a lot of talent in the TW modding world, but it's largely independent and widely scattered. There's no where near enough talent to make mods that match RTW mods in scale and depth.

Necessity is the mother of all invention. That's the approach that I took;

What does a mod need? A map, some factions, some units, some period/typical music and some artwork, targetted goals, believable ambition, LOTS and LOTS of reading and reseach (this was the one thing I did not know).

What doesn't a mod need? Large quantities of bug inducing scripts, a time span counted in centuries, units that range from pencil wielders to supermen, more factions than you have fingers on one hand, a map that covers several continents.



I was surprised when Dux informed me of these melee armed men. I had meant to reskin the clubmen farmer unit and give it to the Royalists but it was low priority. It's something for the future.



Technically they should be using wheellocks and doglocks pistols. Wheellocks being early, doglocks being later. A doglock looks like a flintlock to you and me.

http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers....glokpistl.html

Wheellocks had been in use for quite a long time. Certainly since the mid-16th Century, probably earlier.

http://www.collectorebooks.com/gregg01/Lot-245.htm

Feel free to show your appreaciation by buying that for me. It's only 30,000 USD.

I guess by the 17th century, the idea of the matchlock was entirely out of date, but I suppose it was cheap and importantly very reliable. If the mechanism breaks, you can always physically push the wick into the priming pan.



It's true, and is something I will try to sort out for future patches.

Cheers

Thanks for replying. Never heard of a doglock before, but it's spectacularly modeled. Good work.

[ElSypatiko]

this mod made me put back my vcr in the living .Damned were did i place that video with cromwell??

[leonn]

the melee armed men dux speaks of were at edgehill,men armed in this way dissapeared soon after.

[Dux Eboracum]

Largely at Edgehill, but there were considerable numbers (2,000+) of Welsh recruits so armed in 1643 who were supposed to receive firearms when Bristol was captured, and I've come across other references to many of Rupert's troops being so armed- but it's not clear exactly when this refers to. (Check out Haythornthwaite)

Perhaps an early, cheap option for the Royalists which disappears by 1644.

[General A. Skywalker]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but I don't really like the way the AI-cavalry is fighting. They are actually fighting like line-infantry, meaning most of the time they are just shooting and I've hardly seen cavalry charging my musketeers. However, they don't have enough firepower to fight in such a way.
Is it planned to improve this?

But apart from this: Great mod, really!!

[Chevalier IX]

The Cavalry tactic that you are witnessing is actually a rather common way in which gunpowder cavalry fought in the time period represented,no necessarily like line infantry,but placing the shot as the primary form of attack for thus armed units.Barring a few exceptions most countries erroneously took the shock technique out of their cavalry,rendering them of less and less use upon the field as time went on.The exception in this conflict being the royalist arm of cavalry,which,under Prince Ruperts guidance,adopted the Swedish manner of cavalry action introduced by Gustav Adolph in which shock tactics were brought back to the fore for the cavalry arms,putting all emphasis upon the usage of the sword and the impetus of the charge after breaking up the enemy rank somewhat with an initial round from their pistols(although it has oft times been stated that even this was not common,much more so being that all fire was held until in the midst of the melee and then the order was to fire as seen fit at point blank ranges)of course before I am inundated with protests against these statements highlighting the brave charges of Cromwells Ironsides,I want to say this is just a general overview of the situation and of course exceptions do arise,although I have seen it said hat this form of action was implemented later by Parliament as a reaction to Ruperts tactics and their tendency to rout the less tenacious Parliamentarian cavalry.

[♔Old Dragoon♔]

I don't mind how they fight it out, but it kind of erks me when they don't really charge home when you want them to. In the mix of a melee they look good with pistols firing and swords waving and slashing and what not. In my last battle, which was cavalry heavy for the Royalists and my Parlimentary army the Royals charged my musketeers, but they ducked away behind the pikes and the Royals got impaled on my pikes. So, for me the AI is using them right they just couldn't turn away after my musketeers beautifully manouvered behind the pikes so they didn't get the taste of cold steel.

[General A. Skywalker]

The Cavalry tactic that you are witnessing is actually a rather common way in which gunpowder cavalry fought in the time period represented,no necessarily like line infantry,but placing the shot as the primary form of attack for thus armed units.Barring a few exceptions most countries erroneously took the shock technique out of their cavalry,rendering them of less and less use upon the field as time went on.The exception in this conflict being the royalist arm of cavalry,which,under Prince Ruperts guidance,adopted the Swedish manner of cavalry action introduced by Gustav Adolph in which shock tactics were brought back to the fore for the cavalry arms,putting all emphasis upon the usage of the sword and the impetus of the charge after breaking up the enemy rank somewhat with an initial round from their pistols(although it has oft times been stated that even this was not common,much more so being that all fire was held until in the midst of the melee and then the order was to fire as seen fit at point blank ranges)of course before I am inundated with protests against these statements highlighting the brave charges of Cromwells Ironsides,I want to say this is just a general overview of the situation and of course exceptions do arise,although I have seen it said hat this form of action was implemented later by Parliament as a reaction to Ruperts tactics and their tendency to rout the less tenacious Parliamentarian cavalry.

I'm aware of that, but it doesn't make much sense for cavalry just to stand in front of enemy musketeers, does it? The infantry has more firepower + greater range + is mostly superior in number. So how will such a firefight end? :hmmm:

I have seen AI-cavalry charging my musketeers in this mod, and they have caused much damage, but when they are just shooting at me I have the upper hand.

[Redcoat69]

awsm game and congrats for finishing it at an extremely fast pase. lol i know this is to early, but u guys did an awsm job in this game, and I was wondering what ur next project is?

[AWZC]

awsm game and congrats for finishing it at an extremely fast pase. lol i know this is to early, but u guys did an awsm job in this game, and I was wondering what ur next project is?

Ths mod may seem to be a many manned project, but it was pretty much all AD. Also, I think he mentioned that he isn't gonna do another mod til ETW (could be wrong though, I'm not his spokesman afterall )







Or am I???

[Redcoat69]

Ths mod may seem to be a many manned project, but it was pretty much all AD. Also, I think he mentioned that he isn't gonna do another mod til ETW (could be wrong though, I'm not his spokesman afterall )







Or am I???

aww man that sucks.the FKOC team did an awsm job on this. But this mod is considered the first mod of a gunpowder era in M2TW. Its pretty fun 2 play

[AlphaDelta]

Or am I???

You aren't.

awsm game and congrats for finishing it at an extremely fast pase. lol i know this is to early, but u guys did an awsm job in this game, and I was wondering what ur next project is?

There's no I in team, except when you referring to the FKoC team.

The next step is to try to fix any more bugs that crop up, fix up the AI (strat and battle) so it behaves better, add some more buildings, create some more regiments, include more commanders, implement a more advanced recruitment system and generally polish the mod.

Cheers

[AlphaDelta]

The cavalry are configured as missile cavalry. The AI looks at them as being the same as turkoman horse archers.

It's possible that pistol armed cavalry could be configured as heavy cavalry so they will charge more often, but I really want them to concentrate on the flanks and the enemy cavalry.

[Redcoat69]

The cavalry are configured as missile cavalry. The AI looks at them as being the same as turkoman horse archers.

It's possible that pistol armed cavalry could be configured as heavy cavalry so they will charge more often, but I really want them to concentrate on the flanks and the enemy cavalry.

awsm mani gotta question:could you make the troops shoulder their muskets when standing still, instead of them looking around like they dont know whats happening?(well, it would depend on weather the regiment is regular or just, idk, peasentsthat would be cool. but awsm job on the mod

[$Arminius1]

I am playing "For King or Country" 4 days. Outstandig work! Sounds and graphics create a very intense atmosphere. Battle AI is superb. Only two factions in a medium sized world map is a very good working idea for a historically accurate campaign. It is a blueprint for an "Thirty Years War" caqmpaign. Historical accurracy and challenging AI (battle and campaign) are most important qualities for me.

Cavalry is acting very well in battles.

Only a few things:

Dragoons with setting "avoid melee" do not retreat when cavalry is attacking.

In besieged cities/castles AI musketeers do not defend walls near gates when the besieging force attacks with guns in a distance. So it is not difficult enough to break gates and to go in.

AI works best with both difficulty levels "Very hard". But then money is to low. So I have set extra money in campaign script temporary.

But nevertheless best gameplay experience in M2TW for me until today!

[leonn]

also,cavalry with firearms would have performed the carracoll,if they had room which was basically riding in a big circle,firing as they passed.this was done by both sides at numerous battles.the charging home thing has been a problem in mtw2 for a while now.

[Point Blank]

As an experiment, and if it works with medieval.exe, maybe try them as skirmish class rather than missile. They get a nice label 'skirmisher cavalry' on the battlefield and their behaviour seems slightly altered towards more inclination to melee. It can also be used to separate them in formations_ai so they can be positioned differently.

[Gwyn ap Nud]

For royalist cavalry, if designated as melee cavalry, they might to the Swedish tactic more often.