The plastic poisoned and d(r)ying surface of planet Earth in before Armageddon
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Re: FKoC - Unit stats discussion
Originally Posted by AlphaDelta
You can move the general to the back, to the side, any place on the battlefield, it's a very simple job. If the AI wants to charge his general into the frey then it will do it.
Lol.
You don't understand me. I'm speaking of AI behaviour and its modding. And, this is possible, ie. that an AI general retreats after a charge or is just not so tempered to charge overall.
I don't speak about what i can do in your mod with my general on the battle field
Sorry, your answer to me is unfortunately disgusting, sounds nearly like an english snob ... and i guess you don't know me at all, otherwise you wouldn't give me such dumb instructions and wrong firm ideas about AI modding. I guess we won't become "friends".
But your mod is great, thanks a lot for all your efforts on this. I just wanted to help you a bit with the AI general behaviour on the battle field, or rather trying to modding that a bit along your combat model and to reducing the very charge effect of the important FM's in this historical designed mod, ie. to rescue King Charles andthelike during the mod
And it worked better now, in my first play he died and in the second (after my changes above described) he fled out of my parlamentarian realms (after i trashed his army ... he fled the battlefield alone as his bodyguards were killed, but at least he didn't charge ).
I apologise your grace, this forum is humbled by your presence...
that an AI general retreats after a charge or is just not so tempered to charge overall.
If it's possible to prevent the AI general charging into pikes then please tell us how it's done because Grandviz, who is known to be a regional expert on AI, told me there is no way to tell an AI general what to do.
Cheers
"I don't want to sit around Windsor because ermm .. I just generally don't like England that much" - Prince Harry, 3rd in Line for the British Thrown
Going back to discussions on the formations. I just want to say how great they are.
At first i ignored the formations that were set as default and instead would place my men in the time honoured way i've done since the first MTW. Which is stretch my line of infantry out in a line and shove my gunners in a thin line in front.
But i soon found that trying this in this mod was disaster. After switching to using the formations of the period which you chaps designed for deployment, i had far more success in battle. thats great. Has revived my faith sumwhat in the M2TW battle engine. And shows what a top job you modders have done with it.
I don't see that too much more tweaking is required beyond preventing Generals from getting killed too soon. But then thats been a weakness of TW games for ages. I wonder if theres a solution besides giving CA a clip round the ear.
GOSH I HOPE YOU DO. I REALLYT LIKE SOME OF THE THINGS IN KINGDOMS AND DO ALL MY PERSONAL MODDING IN THAT FORMAT. BUT I DUSTED OFF THE ORGINAL GAME JUST TO PLAY YOUR MOD. AND I LOVE IT THOUGH TO ME IN MY GAME IT SEAMS THE ROYALIST ARE FAR MORE POWERFUL THAN THE PARLIMANT. IT MIGHT JUST BE MY GAME THOUGH. THANKS FOR THE MOD GREAT WORK
Kingdoms introduces other issues, like experience not adding to defence, and pike units not starting in defend mode and the AI way more likely to take them out of defend if they are set to defend at start, which makes the pike combat much more messy and less realistic IMHO.
PB, but it could be adjusted in formations and battle files - with proper files AI tends to hold formation much better and moves army as a whole entity instead of single units. Its mostly due to moddd battle files, but i'm not sure if M2TW exe supports some commands that are possible with kingdoms.
plus it is possible to force guard mode in battle file, i remember i saw it in one mod, just i'm not able to find it right now...
IT SEAMS THE ROYALIST ARE FAR MORE POWERFUL THAN THE PARLIMANT.
The AI will always be more powerful than the player. If you play as Parliament the Royalists will be more powerful, if you play as the Royalists, Parliament will be more powerful.
Kingdoms introduces other issues, like experience not adding to defence, and pike units not starting in defend mode and the AI way more likely to take them out of defend if they are set to defend at start, which makes the pike combat much more messy and less realistic IMHO.
This is not good news!
Last edited by AlphaDelta; October 06, 2008 at 06:10 AM.
"I don't want to sit around Windsor because ermm .. I just generally don't like England that much" - Prince Harry, 3rd in Line for the British Thrown
It's a clip that shows the process of loading and firing a matchlock musket. It takes him almost exactly 1 minute to load and fire it. This is under ideal conditions with no one firing back, and by someone that is obviously very skilled and not a raw-recruit. Coupled with movement time and the need to wait for the officers order to fire the volley, I could easily see how this loading/firing time could be doubled.
However if we are generous and use his time as an average load and fire time, we can see that if you have 4 ranks of men firing by ranks it should take around 15 seconds for each rank to fire a volley. If you have 3 ranks of men continually firing it should take 20 seconds for each rank to fire a volley.
If we take my under-fire raw-recruit estimate of 2 minutes, then with 4 ranks you'd be seeing the same rank of men, standing on the line for upto 30 seconds.
So even though in-game they are standing in the front line, it doesn't necessarily mean they would have finished loading and would be ready to fire.
What I've found in-game is that if you line up in 4 ranks, then the first 4 ranks get off their shots quickly. I timed each volley as taking about 10 seconds each. After the front rank has gone to the back and cycled back to the front, they wait, the unit status shows 'reforming' and no animation is played. After that front ranks fires, the second rank again only takes about 10 seconds, the third rank the same.
So I guess there is a timer in the game that sets the amount of time it takes for each rank to reload and as the front rank went first, they must wait a certain amount of time before that timer counts down.
Cheers
Last edited by AlphaDelta; October 06, 2008 at 06:33 AM.
"I don't want to sit around Windsor because ermm .. I just generally don't like England that much" - Prince Harry, 3rd in Line for the British Thrown
you will also find that musket block fire tends to get more ragged the more pressure they are under,unless they are a highly diciplined regt.ive seen musketeers forget to take ramrods out of the barrels befor firing,leading to very serious injurys.so its easy to extrapolate what would have happened to say an inexperienced trayned band regt,with shot and shell crashing all around them.
just one thing regarding fire discipline - at first, all soldiers have loaded musket, so formation is able to fire x-number salvos for x-number of ranks. Standardly Musketeers were placed in 3-12 ranks, which depends on what kind of firethey want to deliver (constant fire, voley, precise fire,etc...) So if you have 4 ranks,then first 4 salvos will be very quick, practically only few seconds between them (depends how good are musketeers able to move in formation - and most of time they were driled to do so...) only after that reloading speed will come to game.
Swedish tactics comon tactics was waiting until enemy is very close (30-60m) and then fire few salvos so all soldiers will fire their musket once, and then charge into weakened enemy. That kind of tactics was able to cause a lot of shock to the enemy.
Spanish tactics was most of time deeper formation firing constantly (ofcourse less bullets shot per salvo) - with 12 ranks first rank had enough of time to reload their weapon until they were next to fire. They also used two different movement systems - in first musketeers moved to the rear and they relolved in ranks (like in-game animation) in second, they just stood where they were and started to reload, and second rank moved in front of them - this type of fire discipline was used in attack - it allowed constant fire on the move together in formation with pikemen - movement speed was about 60m per minute...
The plastic poisoned and d(r)ying surface of planet Earth in before Armageddon
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Re: FKoC - Unit stats discussion
Originally Posted by AlphaDelta
I have no problem with mini-mods, but not mini-mods that aim to fix bugs, it will create too many problems with version spam.
Cheers
... minimod?
I can't believe it, that you simply removed my post which took me a few minutes to write the descriptions including the FM/general theme from above. This post was meant to you as you could've seen in the first line. Well, feel free to use the new model army reforms fix, and anything. I guess you dl'ed the file(s) prior to the removal. If not, here is the right code for the working reform, edb extract: (bold ... to code in this order, as it won't work in another order)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Code:
recruit_pool "roundhead brooke musketeers" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource midland_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead brooke pikemen" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource midland_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead essex musketeers" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource southern_assoc or hidden_resource london_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead essex pikemen" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource southern_assoc or hidden_resource london_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead fairfax musketeers" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource northern_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead fairfax pikemen" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource northern_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead stamford musketeers" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource western_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead stamford pikemen" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource western_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead manchester musketeers" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource eastern_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead manchester pikemen" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource eastern_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead hamlet musketeers" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource london_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead hamlet pikemen" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource london_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead robartes musketeers" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource southwestern_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead robartes pikemen" 1 1 3 0 requires factions { england, } and not event_counter feb_45 1 and hidden_resource southwestern_assoc ;and event_counter feb_45 0
recruit_pool "roundhead nma musketeers" 3 1 4 1 requires factions { england, } and event_counter feb_45 1
recruit_pool "roundhead nma pikemen" 1 1 2 1 requires factions { england, } and event_counter feb_45 1
Hope i could've been a help to you, not only with the code above in case you dl'ed the file, in regard of the FM changes, if not and you have still questions, pm me. I guess i won't post here anymore in your subforum, as it seems, you like it to remove posts easily, in contrary you could have edited my post (besides a pm to me eventually about your concern): removing the attachment, and then add a comment into the post or just as you did in a new post as comment. And greetings to you Removed. ~Pontifex
Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; October 08, 2008 at 05:01 PM.
Mate, you're wasting your time there, I fixed that bug about 3 days ago thanks to PB.
If you have a fix send it to me via PM and I'll implement it into a patch, loading the forums with unofficial patches is going to make it all the more difficult to fix peoples problems.
Cheers
Last edited by scottishranger; October 08, 2008 at 05:00 PM.
"I don't want to sit around Windsor because ermm .. I just generally don't like England that much" - Prince Harry, 3rd in Line for the British Thrown
Another topic, but it seems to me as if musketry efficiency at long range is relatively high, however at low range it's comparatively low. (I mean that there are only few more casualties when firing at low range compared to long range-fire.)
Is that just me or is the range really not that significant concerning musket efficiency in FKoC?
In most games featuring the musket-era (mostly 18th century+Napoleonic Wars though) we have negligent efficiency at long range, acceptable efficiency at medium range and murderously high efficiency at low range, which is, at least for the 18th/19th century, realistic.
This system seems to be missing in FKoC which of course may be due to the fact that we don't have such a system for archery/musketry in vanilla medieval2.
Another question: Is there any way to keep my musketeers from automatically turning their front towards the enemy (with`'fire at will' activated) ?
Please don't think that I'm complaining though. I like the mod very much!
As far as I'm aware a projectile only has one accuracy variable, so not possible to set logical rules like this "Over 100M's accuracy = 10%, Over 50M's under 100M's accuracy = 40%".
However, with PB's new stats and projectile data there's definitely a change for the better in regards to accuracy vs range.
Cheers
"I don't want to sit around Windsor because ermm .. I just generally don't like England that much" - Prince Harry, 3rd in Line for the British Thrown
Re: FKoC - Unit stats discussion
Originally Posted by AlphaDelta
... and i guess you don't know me at all, otherwise you wouldn't give me such dumb instructions and wrong firm ideas about AI modding. I guess we won't become "friends".
).
