Worthiness to God

[Vladimir Lenin]

Recently I was thinking to myself,

"Why is it that nowadays it seems that God must prove himself worthy of the Worship of Man, rather than Man proving himself worthy to Worship God?"

The answer, I don't know. I'm just interested to hear the thoughts of others on this.

[The Good]

Recently I was thinking to myself,

"Why is it that nowadays it seems that God must prove himself worthy of the Worship of Man, rather than Man proving himself worthy to Worship God?"

The answer, I don't know. I'm just interested to hear the thoughts of others on this.

This seems to be a recurring thought in much of modern philosophy. Generally, this is more prominent in modern Western philosophy. I'm not saying Easterners or people of other cultures are not thinking like this, but it doesn't seem that as many do as those in the Western nations (in particular, Europe, North America, etc... ).

[Mathais]

Well I never looked at that way but far as I know it dosent really matter how worthy you are but if you want to, god wont say no you cant worship me but inivtes all to come unot him but that just me two cents.

[Vladimir Lenin]

Well I never looked at that way but far as I know it dosent really matter how worthy you are but if you want to, god wont say no you cant worship me but inivtes all to come unot him but that just me two cents.

I agree. God accepts all, but why does man require God to be worthy of them when it should be the other way around?

[Mathais]

I but why does man require God to be worthy of them when it should be the other way around?

Yes I never really meet anyone who said that god need to be worthy of them?
It was once told to me that god dosent need you to worship him in order to show that he is god. For he could cause the mountian to rise up and bear his holy name and testify that he is god. None the less we worship god because we need god in our life.

So Im now rather intriged by those who say god need to be worhty of them?

[Vladimir Lenin]

Yes I never really meet anyone who said that god need to be worthy of them?
It was once told to me that god dosent need you to worship him in order to show that he is god. For he could cause the mountian to rise up and bear his holy name and testify that he is god. None the less we worship god because we need god in our life.

I agree, we do worship God because we need him. He does not need us however.

Very few people would actually say that it, they do it in other ways such as,

"God if you are God send me a sign to prove it."

"God if you are God let me get a raise at work."

etc.

[manuelismo]

It intrigues me that even at this point in mans evolution, we still find the need to worship imaginary people/beings....

[Manco]

I agree. God accepts all, but why does man require God to be worthy of them when it should be the other way around?

And why should it be the other way around?

Why should we just accept some higher being as being worthy of us and why should we strive to make ourselves worthy to him?
If anyone is arrogant it would be this version of a God, demanding my faith, my dedication,... without actually having earned it.
Oh sure, he (supposedly) 'created' us and the world. But when you create something to have it worship you and not to let it be his own master, well then I would just denounce that God out of principle for being in essence an egocentric prick.
And besides the 'creation' he hasn't done anything worthy of my respect, he hasn't improved life on this world, he hasn't given us knowledge, he hasn't guided us in a practical sense,...

[Rich86]

Who said anything about evidence??BELIEVING IS DIFFERENT FROM KNOWING, or do we have to discuss this too?!

I did. Seems quite simple that but never mind. I mentioned evidence as I thought it was daft to say in effect, that believing in someone despite having no evidence for them is a sign of love.

And yes I do know there is a difference between 'belief' and 'knowing' - I don't believe my post indicated otherwise?

So if God today comes to you, you wouldn't be able to make anyone believe him.

To be honest it depends on how God 'came to me.' If God came to my house right now, showed me a few neat magic tricks & miracles and showed me something I considered to be indisputable truth yes I would believe. If however he gave me nothing with which to prove his existance to other people then no I would not expect them to believe me with no evidence - I'd think they were being irrational if they just blindly believed what I told them in fact.

but after 100 or 200 years your sons and their sons etc. would abandon this belief 'cause they didn't see God - History repeating!!!

I don't think it's a bad thing that people choose not to believe in something they have no evidence for and cannot prove wether or not it exists - I actually think that's a rather good thing.

Today you know that a is a, you don't believe any more.

If someone has an alphabet related query I can most likely provide them with evidence to settle their question. You however cannot provide me with evidence for your God.

I'm explaining your mistake in seraching for knowledge.

Only in your eyes is it a mistake.

No - God knows that mankind HAS AN OPTION. mankind doesn't have to be sinfull, nor perfect - we have options, and that's liberty, through which comes love. If God made us so that we couldn't commit a sin - then we would be machines, with no free will of it's own...we would be God's puppets. he didn't want that - He wanted Free creatures who would make an effort to know him, and then to accept him, or reject him

You are misunderstanding me. If God created us and he knows everything then as he created each one of us he must have already known how our lives would pan out. Even before God hits the "go" button on an individual person if he knows everything he should already know if that person will die in child birth or not - if that person will leave school at 16 or not - God created that person and knows everything so he should already know how that persons life will pan out. The 'free will' and 'God wants you to make your own choices' sort of goes flying out of the window.

and I'm not saying anything against evolution

I was referring to other users.

[We're talking here about God, and my answer is - there's no proof, it can only come as a result of belief and love.

But can't you see how that sounds? There's no evidence for it so you've jsut gotta dive in there and believe in him! Be honest - if I told you about a God called Gary who walks amongst us but really created us all, he's quite short and has one arm and is quite partial to watching the X-Files - and I told you that Gary is the MASTER of hiding so you'll never see him, or know where he's been or what he's been doing - would you believe in Gary? Would you go and worship Gary? :/

Even biologists are not single-minded about evolution..

For the large part there is a consensus in the scientific community that evolution is the best explanation we have.

but in schools we learn those which our goverment decided for us to learn

That doesn't mean we're being taught the wrong stuff however.

there are many evolution theories

I assume you mean the understanding of the theory has changed over time? If this is what you are saying then this dosen't cast doubt on the theory for a moment - it strengthens it. As scientific knowledge increases theories are naturally revised - that goes for every theory.

you have your evolution (without proof),

I'm not going to get drawn into another evolution discussion on here - however if you really believe that I invite you to post that on the Athenaeum and see what response you get.

[Zmaj od Noćaja]

1. Yes your post did indicate otherwise.
2. If God came to you then you wouldn't believe in him, you would know him - once again those are two different things. You KNOW your father and mother, you don't believe in them...
3. It's not good nor bad thing tha people choose to believe in God, or not - it's the possibility. And to have that possibility is very good.
4. It's not mistake to search for knowledge, but it's a mistake to not know the difference between knowledge and belief. 99% of us won't get any sign or proof of God during this lifetime..
5. Free will is always present, because God's knowledge isn't some sort of destiny. Man doesn't have to sin, and there is HUGE DIFFERENCE if a man is to sin intentionally or unintentionally. Killing a man in self defence and out of pure agression isn't the same - don't you think?! You should really read Bible - in the beginning when Cain kills Avelj (this is how it's written in serbian) you see that God tells Cain that he still has a choice...So not every thing is written in the book of destiny (in which I don't believ)..
6. No I wouldn't believe Gary, just as I didn't believ God neither until I started thinking about him. I was an atheist until i was 17 years old, and then I started thinking otherwise...I said to myself - ok let's say if there is some god, I'll act for one month as if he did exist. After that month I started thinking different. God didn't came to me, nor did someone influenced me - I've chosen to believe him, cause that made sence to me. I'm not saying that everyone would believe Him after a month, but then again I'm not saying otherwise. So my experience (spiritual and mental) was the key of my choice. And I read and studied other religious, as well as evolution (evolution is something that I study for some time now).
7. Concensus is relative - there was concensus that the world was not round..
8. Just as it doesn't mean that we're being taught right stuff.
9. Yes, every scientific theory changes, and evolves..So 100 years from now when it changes again and becomes something different, your statements might become silly...
10. I agree, I don't want to discuss evolution neither..As I said - I didn't think evolution didn't happened, but I don't think that it happened the way they're teaching us - you said it - it always changes, so why would I accept the current version?
The truth is in the middle.

[Calvin]

Because man is arrogant.

[C-Rob]

Because man is arrogant.

Agree one hundred percent.

Now if only we would be so arrogant as to try to build the tower of babel again.... THink he'd smite it down or jumble up our languages again? OR maybe the world would flood a second time.

[AqD]

Because man is arrogant.

And god isn't?
________
LIVE SEX

[The Good]

I think a lot of people, even spiritual, have a lack of humility (for lack of a more specific term) in this regard (that they are not asking themselves if they are worthy, but rather that God should prove his worth).

[Vladimir Lenin]

I think a lot of people, even spiritual, have a lack of humility (for lack of a more specific term) in this regard (that they are not asking themselves if they are worthy, but rather that God should prove his worth).

Exactly.

The need of god is somthing that has always been around. For dosent man want to become somthing more than what he is thus giving the need to worship god. He may see him self as a lower life form but with god he able to become somthing more than what he could do on his own. Thats why we still need to worship god or gods

Great post. Not to mention, that I think we are all called by the Lord God, we can choose to answer him or ignore him. For much of my life I ignored him, and I regret every single moment of it.

[Ciabhán]

I think a lot of people, even spiritual, have a lack of humility (for lack of a more specific term) in this regard (that they are not asking themselves if they are worthy, but rather that God should prove his worth).

Actually before he needs to go about proving his worthiness he needs to prove that he exists.

[Zmaj od Noćaja]

Actually before he needs to go about proving his worthiness he needs to prove that he exists.

If God proved himself, all mankind would perish.

1. If God proved his existance, then he would take all of our liberty to believe him. In that case, we would ALL HAVE TO FOLLOW AND WORSHIP HIM. This way, we all choose if we're going to believe him, or not. Isn't that the greatest proof of love? For He didn't force us to know him, or believe him, nor love him etc. but he let us choose him IF WE WANT TO!!

2. Some say God needs people to worship him..This is one of the stupidest things I ever heard! If God needs anything, then He is not God. If He is however, then He doesn't need anyone or anything! God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - that's three persons, so he isn't lonely, nor he needs anyone to recognize his greatness or existance, for He has the unity of love. God is love, his existance IS love. And true love doesn't have to be in both ways to exist. Only vain people need to be loved back if they're going to love....

3. Now, we have liberty and love. Love has to have liberty, or it doesn't exist. For example, you could force someone to love you your whole life, but love just wouldn't happened...
If someone starts loving the other person freely, then that could develop into real and huge relationship. THAT'S WHY GOD GIVES US LIBERTY TO KNOW AND LOVE HIM, 'CAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE A REAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. He isn't hiding 'cause he hates us, or wants to be mysterious...He wants us to come to him, to search for Him, and on that road he would help us.

But I understand that some people don't think this way. I also know, that even if God proved himself AGAIN, many wouldn't believe him still...Christ was on earth as God-human for 33 years, and after 2000 years we still say - well God never told us about himself...So if God came today, after 500 or 600 or more years, people would again say - No, he doesn't exist, where is he, who is he, how come I never saw him...

And another thing - we don't need God because we need to have ethics, because ethics has nothing to do with God. God created us from nothing, so we will go back to non existing if we don't have God's help. We need God's help to overcome the mortality and create the unity with God.

I'm orthodox, and this is my point of view, I understand that many people might think otherwise...

[Mathais]

@Macky Well If everyon did know that god was real without any doubt wouldnt that be rather pointless, for why would anyone want to be a better person? For if you knew there would be no point in trying. Where is that god dosent provide phyical evidence that he is real then when someone worships him they want to follow god to be a better person by chocie for god gave man commandments to better them self. Now even though someone may not believe in god but still choses to be a kind person in my eyes is better than the one who dose it out of fear of god. Those who dont blindly follow god do it because they know that they are to weak to become a better person so they try to become more worthy of his help. For god will forgive everyone for the value of a person in gods eye never changes but there worhtyness dose.

[Rich86]

Well If everyon did know that god was real without any doubt wouldnt that be rather pointless, for why would anyone want to be a better person?

Hang on - why on earth would your motivation to be a good person vanish because God turned out to be real and there was proof for this?

[Mathais]

Hang on - why on earth would your motivation to be a good person vanish because God turned out to be real and there was proof for this?

Because he ws the one who asked us to become better. For why be nice when there is no punishment for doing somthing wrong. That dosent mean that you cant be a good person anyway like I said In my eyes those who dont believe in god but still live a good life helping others is better than the one who dose it out of fear of god.