Battle = Disloyal General?

**TheEvilSaint** · September 29, 2008, 04:07 PM

can someone please explain this to me?

i send my generals into battle, auto win the battle (yes, i cheat), and my generals lose loyalty. it seems like the more battles i send them to, the more disloyal they get. you'd figure the general would be MORE loyal since i'm making use of his abilities, but no! the ingrate decides to scorn me and i lose his loyalty!

how does this work? i send him to battle and he becomes disloyal. can i prevent this? can i counter this and somehow make him more loyal?

**Doctor** · September 29, 2008, 04:19 PM

Are you playing a mod? or are you talking about decreases in bribe costs?
Because vanilla doesn't have a form of loyalty besides traits and ancillaries that give negative affects to bribes. Basically could you clarify what game you are playing?

**TheEvilSaint** · September 29, 2008, 04:27 PM

vanilla. i dont do mods anymore. and its not bribes. at the beginning of one turn, i send one general out of a settlement, into battle, and after the battle, he has the disloyalty trait.

**Drustan** · September 29, 2008, 04:35 PM

Loyalty traits are *mostly* random. If the general has a trait for disloyalty, it is likely to become worse as he gets older, and there's little you can do about it.

When a family member comes of age, chuck him straight into a city with a general with traits that give loyalty, that's the best way to protect them from disloyalty traits, as if they have a positive loyalty trait, they will never get a negative one.

When a general has refused 2-3 bribes, he will get the 'proven loyalties' trait, which is a good boost to loyalty.

**TheEvilSaint** · September 29, 2008, 04:43 PM

this disloyalty manifested itself in one turn, directly after battle. this general intantly aquired the disloyalty trait, it didnt progress over several turns. and there was no diplomat nearby. it was the battle that somehow made him disloyal and i'm wondering why.

**Drustan** · September 29, 2008, 05:06 PM

Was it instantly after the battle, or the start of the next turn?

**TheEvilSaint** · September 29, 2008, 05:10 PM

instantly, after battle.

**Draugdur** · September 30, 2008, 07:54 AM

This is BI we're talking about, right? Anyway, I've noticed a number of battle-related traits that increase command and/or influence while simultaneously decreasing loyalty. I guess this is supposed to simulate the situation that,with being more and more succesful, your general's power and influence increases. And if I remember history correctly, this is actually quite accurate, since some emperors actually got overthrown by powerful generals.

And as for the remedy...well, some titles give a nice loyalty bonus (+3 and higher). But I never saw loyalty play an important role anyway...can't remember a general rebelling or being bribed even once :hmmm:

**Drustan** · September 30, 2008, 11:35 AM

If you have a really good general, and you are scared of him being bribed, try making him faction heir.

He will be unbribable, but doing this will give the old heair the 'disinherited' trait, giving him -1 influence.

**Claudius Gothicus** · September 30, 2008, 11:51 AM

When a very good general is becoming disloyal the best you can do is take the army away from him and give his ancillaries to other family member (the good ones obviously) and send the traitor in a suicidal mission.

There's no way you can control loyalty traits.

**ThePianist** · September 30, 2008, 02:03 PM

Or put the general in a city with either a spy or a diplomat, and that would do it as well.

**Roman_Wolf** · September 30, 2008, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Claudius Gothicus

send the traitor in a suicidal mission.

why would anyone want to get rid of a general. even if isn't not loyal, just put him in an army under the command of another general. after, general bodyguards are great fighting units and shouldn't be wasted.

**Claudius Gothicus** · September 30, 2008, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Roman_Wolf

why would anyone want to get rid of a general. even if isn't not loyal, just put him in an army under the command of another general. after, general bodyguards are great fighting units and shouldn't be wasted.

I always though that the disloyals could influence other generals traits.

Also he cost you money that you don't want to waste, and by the mid late game you'll prefer havin cataphracts or other types of heavy cavalry.

**Roman_Wolf** · October 01, 2008, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Claudius Gothicus

I always though that the disloyals could influence other generals traits.

Also he cost you money that you don't want to waste, and by the mid late game you'll prefer havin cataphracts or other types of heavy cavalry.

but in the mid of the game, you should probably be so rich that you don't even care about spending money.

besides general's bodyguards regenerate soldiers without having to retrain them. this would be great in enemy teritories.