If God really loved us, wouldn't he make us all Atheists?

[Desperado †]

Look at all the evil religon has brought:

The unfairness that the Church held over everyone, and the corruption it had. The richness it held and the greed, whilst usual peasents had barely enough food.

All the wars it has brought, the slaughters, the genocides.


So, if God really loved us, to avoid these things, wouldn't he of made us all Atheists, though perhaps made us better people through our consiounces and using concepts such as Honour?

[IronBlood]

So, if God really loved us, to avoid these things, wouldn't he of made us all Atheists,

We are all born into atheism, we are taught religion by others.

[MaximiIian]

If it wasn't religion, it'd be something else. You know that, we all do.
Hominins are simply a very nervous and twitchy bunch; we're as likely to give you flowers are we are to punch you in the nose. Very unpredictable, paranoid, violent, though very intelligent animals we and our chimpanzee cousins are; if it weren't one thing setting us off, it'd be something else.

[tibscaligula]

Look at all the evil religon has brought:

The unfairness that the Church held over everyone, and the corruption it had. The richness it held and the greed, whilst usual peasents had barely enough food.

All the wars it has brought, the slaughters, the genocides.


So, if God really loved us, to avoid these things, wouldn't he of made us all Atheists, though perhaps made us better people through our consiounces and using concepts such as Honour?

Rather than do the look at all the good religion as done, pointing out things like the European dark ages never would have ended but certainly would have happened anyway, former and latter, without religion.

Look at all the wars, slaughters and genocides that science and technology, the real culprits, have given men the means to acheive.

[Aonghus G. Friedhold]

In the name of religion, that is. For that matter, these technologies had a strange tendency to be developed because of war - this war beng caused by religion in the first place. Even if you want to argue that religion doesn't cause wars, what about the Spanish Inquisition?

[Vladimir Lenin]

what about the Spanish Inquisition?

It's a little unfair to point that out because, the Pope didn't even support it. It was all Spain's doing.

"The Pope issued a bull to stop the Inquisition but eventually was pressured into withdrawing it"

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

[Claudius Gothicus]

Religion is usually used as a tool for other means.

Man creates evil not religion.

And we are all born atheistic religion is indoctrinated to us.

[gewehr36]

Even if you want to argue that religion doesn't cause wars, what about the Spanish Inquisition?

That was caused by an invading army, not religion. Wars are fought over differences, which means that religion can be the cause, not that it is. Was the Hundred Years War fought over religion?

[tibscaligula]

Why don't you name all the wars that were solely or even primarily caused by religion, and not political, social, economic or other temporal realities, and I will name all of the wars caused by more than one thing or mainly because of something other than religion.

Then we can take the names I put forward (99% of total) and the names you put forward (1% of total) and discuss them further.

[roy34543]

Maybe when we can weigh the positive/negative benefit of religion across all of humanitys past and all the future that shall ever be we can discuss this properly.

[tibscaligula]

Maybe when we can weigh the positive/negative benefit of religion across all of humanitys past and all the future that shall ever be we can discuss this properly.

Since we can't weigh an unknown, "all the future that shall ever be", that is a pretty stupid idea.

As far as the past goes, I can't think of a single culture that would exist today without religion, and since I personally believe some culture is better than apes in trees, I guess it is impossible to say that religion's negatives outweigh its positives.

[roy34543]

Since we can't weigh an unknown, "all the future that shall ever be", that is a pretty stupid idea.

I never said i thought that discussing this was ever a plausible, or good idea. at least on my terms anyway. I doubt we will ever even be able to judge the benefits or evils that religion causes to people in a single day, let alone the entirety of human history.

[cottontail]

Religion doesn't cause problems, people cause problems. Religion is just an excuse for evil people to commit horrible deeds. Without religion, these things would still happen. Look at Stalin: he wasn't religous. He used another excuse. As others would do if there was no religion.

[tibscaligula]

I never said i thought that discussing this was ever a plausible, or good idea. at least on my terms anyway. I doubt we will ever even be able to judge the benefits or evils that religion causes to people in a single day, let alone the entirety of human history.

I disagree. We can make judgments (some likely more informed and or encompassing than others), just not absolute statements. I think that I do not understand your intended meaning was in the original proposal.

[Ardruire Iacób]

Look at all the evil religon has brought:

The unfairness that the Church held over everyone, and the corruption it had. The richness it held and the greed, whilst usual peasents had barely enough food.

All the wars it has brought, the slaughters, the genocides.


So, if God really loved us, to avoid these things, wouldn't he of made us all Atheists, though perhaps made us better people through our consiounces and using concepts such as Honour?

Atre you saying that if God really loved us, he should tell us he doesn't exist? A nasty paradox, there. For he has to exist to tell us he doesn't.

In the name of religion, that is. For that matter, these technologies had a strange tendency to be developed because of war - this war beng caused by religion in the first place. Even if you want to argue that religion doesn't cause wars, what about the Spanish Inquisition?

What wars exactly did the Spanish Inquisition start? And did it not occur to you that it may have been really aimed at political dissidents in general, rather than just heretics?

[Desperado †]

Atre you saying that if God really loved us, he should tell us he doesn't exist? A nasty paradox, there. For he has to exist to tell us he doesn't.

Yes. But God being who he is, could make us who we are in diffrent ways rather than simply shouting down at us that he dosen't exist. According to most believes, God tells us things in many ways, some which aren't that obvious.

I think that God could of done this, but perhaps kept us as better people through working through our consiounces and implenting ideas such as honour. I reckon God would of realised that religon would of caused so much suffering and deaths of innocents in their millions, rape and genocides. He must of realised, being a divine being. So why didn't he make us Atheists? This is why I reckon he probablly does not exist.

[tibscaligula]

The Spanish inquisition is an infintessimally small part of post reformation western history. Tiny. And as pointed out, a variety of factors outside the sphere of religion were involved, and nothing that could easily be defined as a war in the traditional army on army sense came out of it.

[roy34543]

What wars exactly did the Spanish Inquisition start? And did it not occur to you that it may have been really aimed at political dissidents in general, rather than just heretics?

Not really tbh, As my understanding goes the queen was just pretty crazy.

[Da Skinna]

If God loved us He'd kill Himself.

[karahan]

If God loved us He'd kill Himself.

Man I love u Atheist guys