Unit Speed

[ignasigh]

Hi modders!

I'd like to know how to change the speed of a unit. I don't know if it's possible thought, but I'd like to make the skirmishers fasters than mailed knights.

Ideas?

Thanks!

[aduellist]

You can use the move_speed_mod attribute in export descr_unit.txt.

Example from SS EDU:

type             Highland Pikemen
dictionary       Highland_Pikemen      ; Highland Pikemen, l
category         infantry
class            spearmen
voice_type       Light
banner faction   main_spear
banner holy      crusade
soldier          Heavy_Pike_Militia, 60, 0, 1.5
;officer          Noble_Swordsmen
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, pike
move_speed_mod	 0.70
formation        1.25, 0, 2.0, 2.0, 8, square, phalanx

Most units do not have this attribute specified and use their default value. So you could do something like this to speed javelin men up:

type             Javelinmen
dictionary       Javelinmen      ; Javelinmen, l
category         infantry
class            missile
voice_type       Light
banner faction   main_missile
banner holy      crusade
soldier          Javelinmen, 48, 0, 0.8
;officer          northern_captain
mount_effect     elephant +6
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, start_not_skirmishing
move_speed_mod	 1.1
formation        1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square

Or you could specify something like 0.90 for DMK to slow them down.

[ignasigh]

You can use the move_speed_mod attribute in export descr_unit.txt.

Example from SS EDU:

type             Highland Pikemen
dictionary       Highland_Pikemen      ; Highland Pikemen, l
category         infantry
class            spearmen
voice_type       Light
banner faction   main_spear
banner holy      crusade
soldier          Heavy_Pike_Militia, 60, 0, 1.5
;officer          Noble_Swordsmen
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, pike
move_speed_mod     0.70
formation        1.25, 0, 2.0, 2.0, 8, square, phalanx

Most units do not have this attribute specified and use their default value. So you could do something like this to speed javelin men up:

type             Javelinmen
dictionary       Javelinmen      ; Javelinmen, l
category         infantry
class            missile
voice_type       Light
banner faction   main_missile
banner holy      crusade
soldier          Javelinmen, 48, 0, 0.8
;officer          northern_captain
mount_effect     elephant +6
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, start_not_skirmishing
move_speed_mod     1.1
formation        1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square

Or you could specify something like 0.90 for DMK to slow them down.

GRANDE aduellist

So, this attribute is not in EDU but can be added without altering/install anything to SS's vanilla?

Mmmmm sounds like I'm going to play a little bit with this

*EDIT*
Yes, only pikemen are slower than the rest, so it's what I don't understand....javelin & light archers are as fast as a supermailed knight. Maybe this is intended, because in a battle if you don't have cavalry you can be pursuing a single javelin unit all the time...
*EDIT*

Thx!

[ignasigh]

Ok I'm about to release a new submod that will increase the speed of some infantry (by now only them) units. Changes will be :

Highlanders changed its speed to x1.4
Viking_Raiders changed its speed to x1.4
Sword_and_Buckler_Men changed its speed to x1.4
Swordsmen_Militia changed its speed to x1.4
Woodsmen changed its speed to x1.4
Slav_Levies changed its speed to x1.4
Sudanese_Tribesmen changed its speed to x1.4
Ghazis changed its speed to x1.4
Mutatawwi'a changed its speed to x1.4
Desert_Raiders changed its speed to x1.4
Viking_Mercenaries changed its speed to x1.4
Ceitherne changed its speed to x1.4
Pisan_and_Geonese_sailors changed its speed to x1.4
Gwent_Raiders changed its speed to x1.4
Pecheneg_Tribesmen changed its speed to x1.4
Lithuanian_Axemen changed its speed to x1.4

Suggestions? I can increase the speed a little or increase some more than others...(highland rabble can be VERY fast to make them more useful)

If this prospers, I'll make cavalry changes as well!

[Santiago de Pola]

Yeah, that move_speed_mod is a pretty sweet thing!

I increased the speed of all cavalry by 18%(1.18) that way..horses just move too damn slow by default!

[ignasigh]

Yeah, that move_speed_mod is a pretty sweet thing!

I increased the speed of all cavalry by 18%(1.18) that way..horses just move too damn slow by default!

Yep, but I'm doing this also for the reasons I commented...a non-armoured unit cannot be as slow as a high-armoured (armoured by base definition, not the post-improvements in the campaign).

So you increased all cavs by 1.18? Interesting...All of them or only the light ones? I tested with 1.4 (40%) only in infantry units and it results pretty realistic

[Santiago de Pola]

All of them or only the light ones?

All..the default speed of cavalry in comparison to infantry just seemed too slow for me!

But sure..some heavily armored knights are meant to be slow, but when they got exhausted, they could barely move..kinda unreal!

Don't know who discovered the speed option, but it's quite a breakthrough!

[mcantu]

does this affect overall animation speed (including attacks) or just running speed?

[ignasigh]

does this affect overall animation speed (including attacks) or just running speed?

MMM I think it's only running speed

I'll include it in my submod, but I'll first take a look at the light units that should be improved. For playability reasons, none of missile units will be upgraded.

[Sorkenlol]

Cool, is that the speed they run in, or they speed they attack with?

[Lord_Calidor]

A small suggestions, if I may:

Instead of speeding everything up, why not slow down the heavy units? Combat is already too fast as it is, and units move unrealistically fast. Heavy Inf can outflank in a whim!

So my suggestions is to normalize all units towards the fastest infantry, eg. let's say well-trained, hardy archer & javelin skirmishers like Almugavars or Sherwood Archers are fastest - they retain movement at a 1.0 factor. Then slow down the units with heavy shield to cca 0.9, heavy inf. in armour & shield to 0.8, plate/eastern plated mail armour to 0.7 etc. These factors are only example, I'll leave it to your judgement to choose the right numbers.

[ignasigh]

A small suggestions, if I may:

Instead of speeding everything up, why not slow down the heavy units? Combat is already too fast as it is, and units move unrealistically fast. Heavy Inf can outflank in a whim!

So my suggestions is to normalize all units towards the fastest infantry, eg. let's say well-trained, hardy archer & javelin skirmishers like Almugavars or Sherwood Archers are fastest - they retain movement at a 1.0 factor. Then slow down the units with heavy shield to cca 0.9, heavy inf. in armour & shield to 0.8, plate/eastern plated mail armour to 0.7 etc. These factors are only example, I'll leave it to your judgement to choose the right numbers.

Well yes & no. I agree that if I'm thinking in increasing speed I can also decrease it for some units, why not?

But, I don't know how would affect in a battle where you've mailed knights against skirmishers...it'd be the never ending battle...Imagine all the skirmishers [benny hill music=on]running and shooting , running and shooting until the pursuing unit is down[benny hill music=off].

I know it's true, skirmishers are faster but...wouldn't you be tired to be pursuing the same unit in all the map? So, what I'm intending is to increase the speed of the light-non-projectile units (inf & cavs) to give them more usability in the map (they can make a quickly encircle of the enemy)

What do you all think?

[Lord_Calidor]

But, I don't know how would affect in a battle where you've mailed knights against skirmishers...it'd be the never ending battle...Imagine all the skirmishers [benny hill music=on]running and shooting , running and shooting until the pursuing unit is down[benny hill music=off].

That's exactly what happened in reality... well, until they ran out of ammo. It should motivate the players to use (or counter them with) mixed forces tactics.

[ignasigh]

That's exactly what happened in reality... well, until they ran out of ammo. It should motivate the players to use (or counter them with) mixed forces tactics.

Well...this needs a poll

[Lord_Calidor]

How can we take this seriously without the "This poll sucks!" option?

[ignasigh]

How can we take this seriously without the "This poll sucks!" option?

Hahahah I don't want to hear the truth ;D

[Gorrrrrn]

Having done experimenting with skirmishers (missile) they can be a real nuisance if you don't defeat them but have to chase them all round the battle map before they eventually rout when contact is made. Especially true of units with a slow rate of fire as they never use up their ammo and so continually move before contact to firing range, turn to fire -OMG we're being attacked - let's run again.

(I'd favour giving skirmishers lower morale so they'll rout if the rest of the army is defeated.)

but generally on level ground men or horses go faster than men on foot. (might change that for forests, or other terrain.)

[ignasigh]

Having done experimenting with skirmishers (missile) they can be a real nuisance if you don't defeat them but have to chase them all round the battle map before they eventually rout when contact is made. Especially true of units with a slow rate of fire as they never use up their ammo and so continually move before contact to firing range, turn to fire -OMG we're being attacked - let's run again.

(I'd favour giving skirmishers lower morale so they'll rout if the rest of the army is defeated.)

but generally on level ground men or horses go faster than men on foot. (might change that for forests, or other terrain.)

Well that's what I'm poiting out, I don't want a never-ending battle where skirmishers are ruining the gameplay...that's why I proposed to increase only the "raiders"+"very light infantry"+"light cavs" speed keeping the others as they are.

The idea is that I thought that in all mods, light infantry is nothing else than "meat fodder", so I propose to give them a little bit more usability by making them run more...

[Gorrrrrn]

nah

these light infantry were usually totally untrained and undisciplined. Like trying to herd a flock of cats. Highly unlikely to move more quickly than any other units except in the direction of HOME!

(exception - sword and buckler men who were properly trained infantry, so should be excluded.)