Homosexuality

[Pickle_mole]

Okay so i was in a conversation with my lovely lady (Im just saying that so you wont think im gay! ) and we were talking about gays and heaven. But what i really want to talk about is how one becomes gay. And i could only boil it down to two answers. Either its a gene or brain defeciency or its a choice. If its the first answer then we could "cure" "gayness" and if its the second then we could theroetically 100% prevent "gayness". You could argue that its a result of their upbringing/life events, but if that was the case we could still prevent it. Like if we had a 1000 babies and rose them the same way w/o any of those "gay making" life events would any of them turn out gay? Am i way off base or what?

[Winter]

Yeah you're way way off base.

Being gay is an attraction to another human being that happens to be of your sex, there is nothing wrong with it. You are born gay or straight and you can't be "turned" straight any more than you can be turned gay.

It's posts like these that spread around the ignorance that holds homosexual people back in this world.

Oh and

Im just saying that so you wont think im gay!

No one would have cared either way, at least the people worth anybody's time.

[Pickle_mole]

i thought i was pretty objective. Explain how one becomes gay? Oh and i that was a joke about me being gay, thought you would catch that!

[Winter]

i thought i was pretty objective. Explain how one becomes gay?

It's not objective at all. It's saying that being a homosexual is a problem that needs to be cured, as if it was some sort of birth defect or acquired childhood disease. It's homophobia plain and simple.

Oh and i that was a joke about me being gay, thought you would catch that!

Given the tone of your post it certainly sounds like you see homosexuality as a problem, so I thought it perfectly reasonable that you might want people to think you were straight, but whatever.

[Justice and Mercy]

It's not objective at all. It's saying that being a homosexual is a problem that needs to be cured, as if it was some sort of birth defect or acquired childhood disease. It's homophobia plain and simple.

It is a defect.

But grown-ups are able to accept the truth and realize this...

In some cases the truth changes nothing, it just clarifies things.

Clarity is an important part of understanding.

[Pickle_mole]

Well you know how people on the net always make stuff up to make there points more compelling etc, like im a war vet or a millionare, i was merely trying to make fun. But whatever, thats not the imporetant part. I would lump being gay with a disorder since it is not natural in the sense that if it was we, as a species, would be like snails which are unisex. Since there are two sexes required for procreation, the inability to be attracted to the other sex should be looked on as a dysfunction. But i am not trying to discuss that aspect of the topic, rather how one "becomes"/Born gay or what have you.

[Problem Sleuth]

Well you know how people on the net always make stuff up to make there points more compelling etc, like im a war vet or a millionare, i was merely trying to make fun. But whatever, thats not the imporetant part. I would lump being gay with a disorder since it is not natural in the sense that if it was we, as a species, would be like snails which are unisex. Since there are two sexes required for procreation, the inability to be attracted to the other sex should be looked on as a dysfunction. But i am not trying to discuss that aspect of the topic, rather how one "becomes"/Born gay or what have you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals

Clearly not natural at all.

[Winter]

Well you know how people on the net always make stuff up to make there points more compelling etc, like im a war vet or a millionare, i was merely trying to make fun. But whatever, thats not the imporetant part. I would lump being gay with a disorder since it is not natural in the sense that if it was we, as a species, would be like snails which are unisex. Since there are two sexes required for procreation, the inability to be attracted to the other sex should be looked on as a dysfunction. But i am not trying to discuss that aspect of the topic, rather how one "becomes"/Born gay or what have you.

Again homosexuality is not a "disorder" in any way. It doesn't stop men from procreating, in fact many gay men eventually have children through adoption or a in-vitro fertilization of a surrogate mother.

You are born gay the same way you are born straight, that's just the way your brain works. If you want me to go into the chemical details that's not going to happen because I'm not a doctor or a biologist, but trust me homosexuality, no matter what ignorant drivel you've been raised on, is not a disease or a disorder.

But grown-ups are able to accept the truth and realize this...

Oh so now I'm a child. Thanks for pointing this out to me. I would think it would be more "grown up" to not automatically characterize someone different from me as having a defect, but hey, I'm a child and can't think clearly.

[Justice and Mercy]

Oh so now I'm a child. Thanks.

I didn't say that.

But admissions are always good.

I would think it would be more "grown up" to not automatically characterize someone different from me as having a defect, but hey, I'm a child and can't think clearly.

There you go.

[Erlinggra]

Again homosexuality is not a "disorder" in any way. It doesn't stop men from procreating, in fact many gay men eventually have children through adoption or a in-vitro fertilization of a surrogate mother.

Or through sex, it’s not like being gay makes you unable to have relations with women.

[Ältester der Motten]

You are born gay the same way you are born straight, that's just the way your brain works. If you want me to go into the chemical details that's not going to happen because I'm not a doctor or a biologist, but trust me homosexuality, no matter what ignorant drivel you've been raised on, is not a disease or a disorder.

I doubt you could actually know this. Of course it is a brain-driven thing, but that doesn't mean it is genetically caused, and cases of people who went from heterosexually attracted to homo- or bisexually interested ones (see me) suggest this is not the case, but that it is in fact an irregularity in later brain development, caused by whatever.

If there is no absolute moral standard, then there is no reason whatsoever why I shouldn't go out and murder somebody tomorrow.

Of course you could, in that you are not necessarily doing wrong with this deed.
Anyhow, you would still hurt the relatives and friends as they lost a very important person, and the victim may have been a person of significance, be it economically, scientifically, whatever.
So, if you're an anywhere near nice guy, you wouldn't do it anyway.
Not because it "is wrong", but because you just are a nice person, who actually loves the people out of his heart, not because it is said to be "right".

It bears also no relevance to the discussion, as murder/homicide severly effects the existence of other beings in a way that most people consider to be negative ( I am talking about the relatives/friends, not the victim, who from the point of his death bears no importance whatsoever anyway), while homosexual preference does nothing like this, in fact it only affects the lifes of those that are homosexually interested themselves, exceptions are homosexual rapists, but that is not relevant to whether homoerotical sensation is despicable or not, as this is the case with regular heteroerotical sensation aswell, I hope you understand in which way this nullifies the "harmful" argument.

This is also not the Ethos, please go away with that here.

[dwringer]

Well you know how people on the net always make stuff up to make there points more compelling etc, like im a war vet or a millionare, i was merely trying to make fun. But whatever, thats not the imporetant part. I would lump being gay with a disorder since it is not natural in the sense that if it was we, as a species, would be like snails which are unisex. Since there are two sexes required for procreation, the inability to be attracted to the other sex should be looked on as a dysfunction. But i am not trying to discuss that aspect of the topic, rather how one "becomes"/Born gay or what have you.

In some species, most of the members of one sex become asexual and devote their lives to prolonging the species' existence by supporting the reproducing members of society. This is because they have less desirable traits to the opposite sex, less desirable traits for the perpetuation of the species, or other reasons that they are not viable for reproducing. Thus it is not necessarily natural for everything to work heterosexually and have everybody get into single partner monogamous relationships. Humans have done things like this conventionally, but the statistics that indicate a very significant percentage of people are homosexual seem to indicate that we do not naturally work in exactly that fashion.

In short, it's not necessarily unnatural for a being to exist for reasons other than its own procreation.

[Erlinggra]

Well the truth is we aren’t 100% sure how one becomes gay. There are scientists out there that say it is determined at birth, and there are those that say it happens in life.

You need to remember that homosexuality is attraction to the same sex. What attracts you to people is emotions so it is rational to draw the conclusion that your upbringing is more important than genes.

Few scientists will say you are born gay, as that would also mean you are born a criminal etc.

[Justice and Mercy]

Oops.

I made a mistake.

I called homosexuality a "defect". A more proper would be "disorder".

Oh well. Close enough.

[Dayman]

Oops.

I made a mistake.

I called homosexuality a "defect". A more proper would be "disorder".

Oh well. Close enough.

Oh judgments thy name is J&M

[Winter]

I didn't say that.

But admissions are always good.

grown-ups

I wouldn't admit it is a defect (it's not you see) which you insist only "grown-ups" can recognize. Since the opposite of a "grown-up" is a child, its logical to assume you were calling me a child. Don't pretend otherwise and insult me further.

This is a clear example, ladies and gentlemen, of what you talk about when you have nothing to say in your defense. You belittle your opponent and make him seem small, so that your word will automatically be accepted.

Or through sex, it’s not like being gay makes you unable to have relations with women

Well yeah but lets say that option is rather unlikely

I called homosexuality a "defect". A more proper would be "disorder".

Disorder is worse because it implies homosexuality is a disease and therefore curable, which it is not.

[Justice and Mercy]

I wouldn't admit it is a defect (it's not you see) which you insist only "grown-ups" can recognize.

Nope, but your inability to understand the proper use of words isn't exactly unprecedented.

Since the opposite of a "grown-up" is a child, its logical to assume you were calling me a child. Don't pretend otherwise and insult me further.

The opposite of a grown-up is simply someone who isn't grown-up.

There are plenty of adults who aren't grown-up.

This is a clear example, ladies and gentlemen, of what you talk about when you have nothing to say in your defense. You belittle your opponent and make him seem small, so that your word will automatically be accepted.

What defense?

I'm not defending from anything.

[Winter]

The opposite of a grown-up is simply someone who isn't grown-up.

There are plenty of adults who aren't grown-up.

It's semantics, and rather tedious semantics at that. It's fair to say a non grown up adult is childish, so irregardless you compared me to a child.

What defense?

The defense of your position, I should have clarified that bit.

[Justice and Mercy]

It's semantics, and rather tedious semantics at that. It's fair to say a non grown up adult is childish, so irregardless you compared me to a child.

Except I never called you a non-grown up.

The defense of your position, I should have clarified that bit.

I'm sure you don't understand my position, and I'm certain you can't formulate any damaging attack against my position.

[Maraxus]

The first post is about Gays in Heaven. Well Jesus loves me so he must be gay and he got into heaven?

But seriously I doubt if there is a God that he/she/it cares that you like the opposite sex, as long as you treat others with respect and be an overall nice person.