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  1. #1
    jimkatalanos's Avatar 浪人
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    Default HoI2 mods

    Which HoI2 (and DD, or Armageddon) mods do you like?

    I really like Total Realism and CORE. SKIF is great too.
    Ερωτηθεὶς τι ποτ' αυτώ περιγέγονεν εκ φιλοσοφίας, έφη, «Το ανεπιτάκτως ποιείν ά τινες διά τον από των νόμων φόβον ποιούσιν.


    Under the professional guidance of TWC's Zone expert Garbarsardar
    Patron of Noble Savage, Dimitri_Harkov, MasterOfThessus, The Fuzz, aja5191, Furin, neoptolemos, AnthoniusII, Legio, agisilaos, Romanos IV, Taiji, Leo, Jom, Jarlaxe






    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it.


    The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts.


    If you desire to be good, begin by believing that you are wicked.


    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.


    οὕτως ἀταλαίπωρος τοῖς πολλοῖς ἡ ζήτησις τῆς ἀληθείας, καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἑτοῖμα μᾶλλον τρέπονται.


    Questions are not necessarily there to be answered, but possibly there to inspire thinking.


    Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, - quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes.


    If mind is common to us, then also the reason, whereby we are reasoning beings, is common. If this be so, then also the reason which enjoins what is to be done or left undone is common. If this be so, law also is common; if this be so, we are citizens; if this be so, we are partakers in one constitution; if this be so, the Universe is a kind of commonwealth.


    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.


    There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
    Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
    From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
    Mastery of the self is mastery of the world. Loss of the self is the source of suffering.
    Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it.
    It is in our power to create the world, or destroy it.


    Homo homini lupus est. Homo sacra res homini.


    When deeds speak, words are nothing.


    Human history is a litany of blood, shed over different ideals of rulership and afterlife


    Sol lucet omnibus.


    You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.


    Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.


    The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.


    Ο Νούς νοεί τον εαυτόν του ως κράτιστος και η νόησή του είναι της νοήσεως νόησις.


    'Nothing is true, everything is permitted.' is merely an observation of the nature of reality. To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.

  2. #2
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Stony Road (HSR, being a German-oriented player).

  3. #3
    jimkatalanos's Avatar 浪人
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar View Post
    Stony Road (HSR, being a German-oriented player).
    good mod, but it doesn't work with Armageddon that I use the last months.
    Ερωτηθεὶς τι ποτ' αυτώ περιγέγονεν εκ φιλοσοφίας, έφη, «Το ανεπιτάκτως ποιείν ά τινες διά τον από των νόμων φόβον ποιούσιν.


    Under the professional guidance of TWC's Zone expert Garbarsardar
    Patron of Noble Savage, Dimitri_Harkov, MasterOfThessus, The Fuzz, aja5191, Furin, neoptolemos, AnthoniusII, Legio, agisilaos, Romanos IV, Taiji, Leo, Jom, Jarlaxe






    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it.


    The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts.


    If you desire to be good, begin by believing that you are wicked.


    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.


    οὕτως ἀταλαίπωρος τοῖς πολλοῖς ἡ ζήτησις τῆς ἀληθείας, καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἑτοῖμα μᾶλλον τρέπονται.


    Questions are not necessarily there to be answered, but possibly there to inspire thinking.


    Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, - quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes.


    If mind is common to us, then also the reason, whereby we are reasoning beings, is common. If this be so, then also the reason which enjoins what is to be done or left undone is common. If this be so, law also is common; if this be so, we are citizens; if this be so, we are partakers in one constitution; if this be so, the Universe is a kind of commonwealth.


    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.


    There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
    Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
    From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
    Mastery of the self is mastery of the world. Loss of the self is the source of suffering.
    Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it.
    It is in our power to create the world, or destroy it.


    Homo homini lupus est. Homo sacra res homini.


    When deeds speak, words are nothing.


    Human history is a litany of blood, shed over different ideals of rulership and afterlife


    Sol lucet omnibus.


    You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.


    Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.


    The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.


    Ο Νούς νοεί τον εαυτόν του ως κράτιστος και η νόησή του είναι της νοήσεως νόησις.


    'Nothing is true, everything is permitted.' is merely an observation of the nature of reality. To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.

  4. #4

    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar View Post
    Stony Road (HSR, being a German-oriented player).
    Didn't that die? A shame, good mod though.

    Kaiserreich is my favorite. So many awesome events and countries.

  5. #5
    Atterdag's Avatar Tro og Håb
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    I personally really enjoy both WIF and Mod34. Tried Kaiserreich and MS but both were so effing hard to install that I lost the will to see it through.
    Granted Lettre de Marque by King Henry V - Spurs given by imb39
    Сканија је Данска

    عیسی پسر مریم گفت :' جهان است پل ، عبور بیش از آن است ، اما هیچ ساخت خانه بر آن او امیدوار است که برای یک روز ، ممکن است برای ابدیت امیدواریم ، اما ماندگار جهان اما ساعت آن را صرف در دعا و نماز برای استراحت است نهان

    All of the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier.
    Otto von Bismarck


  6. #6

    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Atterdag View Post
    I personally really enjoy both WIF and Mod34. Tried Kaiserreich and MS but both were so effing hard to install that I lost the will to see it through.
    I'm loving mod34
    Hammer & Sickle - Karacharovo

    And I drank it strait down.

  7. #7

    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    mod34 and Kaiserreich are great mods but my overall favorite has to be SMEP. Just gotta lova all those extra events.
    Ever had Problems when trying to find some good sites about a special period in history on Google?
    Then try looking if the site you need is in Links to History.

  8. #8
    jimkatalanos's Avatar 浪人
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Estlander View Post
    Didn't that die? A shame, good mod though.

    Kaiserreich is my favorite. So many awesome events and countries.
    Haven't tried Kaiserreich yet. Is it for DD?
    Ερωτηθεὶς τι ποτ' αυτώ περιγέγονεν εκ φιλοσοφίας, έφη, «Το ανεπιτάκτως ποιείν ά τινες διά τον από των νόμων φόβον ποιούσιν.


    Under the professional guidance of TWC's Zone expert Garbarsardar
    Patron of Noble Savage, Dimitri_Harkov, MasterOfThessus, The Fuzz, aja5191, Furin, neoptolemos, AnthoniusII, Legio, agisilaos, Romanos IV, Taiji, Leo, Jom, Jarlaxe






    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it.


    The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts.


    If you desire to be good, begin by believing that you are wicked.


    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.


    οὕτως ἀταλαίπωρος τοῖς πολλοῖς ἡ ζήτησις τῆς ἀληθείας, καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἑτοῖμα μᾶλλον τρέπονται.


    Questions are not necessarily there to be answered, but possibly there to inspire thinking.


    Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, - quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes.


    If mind is common to us, then also the reason, whereby we are reasoning beings, is common. If this be so, then also the reason which enjoins what is to be done or left undone is common. If this be so, law also is common; if this be so, we are citizens; if this be so, we are partakers in one constitution; if this be so, the Universe is a kind of commonwealth.


    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.


    There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
    Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
    From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
    Mastery of the self is mastery of the world. Loss of the self is the source of suffering.
    Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it.
    It is in our power to create the world, or destroy it.


    Homo homini lupus est. Homo sacra res homini.


    When deeds speak, words are nothing.


    Human history is a litany of blood, shed over different ideals of rulership and afterlife


    Sol lucet omnibus.


    You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.


    Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.


    The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.


    Ο Νούς νοεί τον εαυτόν του ως κράτιστος και η νόησή του είναι της νοήσεως νόησις.


    'Nothing is true, everything is permitted.' is merely an observation of the nature of reality. To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.

  9. #9
    yxc qwert!'s Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Kaiserreich is great. I love the events, the whole idea.
    REMOVE KEBAB FROM PREMISES

  10. #10
    Ketzerfreund's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    I like bringing democracy to Africa as Germany in the Modern Day Scenario II.
    I had to repair some of the events, however... Some of them are somewhat ridiculous (like Belarus joining Russia, Germany suddenly breaking all ties to the EU when hell breaks loose in Georgia etc.)

    At the MDS2-forum you can find a lot more events to include, notably election events.

    The next version will be for Armageddon.

    There are still some flaws, but HOI2 isn't so hard to mod that you couldn't fix some issues yourself.


    -Der Ketzerfreund.
    "Oh, to be truly happy! To be an imbecile." - Wobbly Headed Bob

  11. #11
    Erebus Pasha's Avatar vezir-i āzam
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by jimkatalanos View Post
    Which HoI2 (and DD, or Armageddon) mods do you like?

    I really like Total Realism and CORE. SKIF is great too.
    Tell me more about CORE and Total Realism. Which one is the best? And do they work with Armageddon?

    www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/
    Under the patronage of the Noble Savage.

  12. #12
    jimkatalanos's Avatar 浪人
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by Erebus26 View Post
    Tell me more about CORE and Total Realism. Which one is the best? And do they work with Armageddon?
    They work for Armageddon. Total realism, they try to make the game more realistic(). An example, battles last longer. I was playing as Germany, I invaded benelux, Belgium had 10 divisions in Antwerp(they had dug in and the province had 3 forts). I attacked them with 42 divisions, the battle lasted 10 days.
    CORE adds many events, some of them may lead to ww2, others might lead to Italy declaring war to Germany when Austria is annexed(so the axis will never be formed). Interesting, not always realistic but interesting.

    I prefer total realism.
    Ερωτηθεὶς τι ποτ' αυτώ περιγέγονεν εκ φιλοσοφίας, έφη, «Το ανεπιτάκτως ποιείν ά τινες διά τον από των νόμων φόβον ποιούσιν.


    Under the professional guidance of TWC's Zone expert Garbarsardar
    Patron of Noble Savage, Dimitri_Harkov, MasterOfThessus, The Fuzz, aja5191, Furin, neoptolemos, AnthoniusII, Legio, agisilaos, Romanos IV, Taiji, Leo, Jom, Jarlaxe






    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it.


    The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts.


    If you desire to be good, begin by believing that you are wicked.


    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.


    οὕτως ἀταλαίπωρος τοῖς πολλοῖς ἡ ζήτησις τῆς ἀληθείας, καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἑτοῖμα μᾶλλον τρέπονται.


    Questions are not necessarily there to be answered, but possibly there to inspire thinking.


    Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, - quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes.


    If mind is common to us, then also the reason, whereby we are reasoning beings, is common. If this be so, then also the reason which enjoins what is to be done or left undone is common. If this be so, law also is common; if this be so, we are citizens; if this be so, we are partakers in one constitution; if this be so, the Universe is a kind of commonwealth.


    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.


    There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
    Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
    From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
    Mastery of the self is mastery of the world. Loss of the self is the source of suffering.
    Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it.
    It is in our power to create the world, or destroy it.


    Homo homini lupus est. Homo sacra res homini.


    When deeds speak, words are nothing.


    Human history is a litany of blood, shed over different ideals of rulership and afterlife


    Sol lucet omnibus.


    You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.


    Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.


    The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.


    Ο Νούς νοεί τον εαυτόν του ως κράτιστος και η νόησή του είναι της νοήσεως νόησις.


    'Nothing is true, everything is permitted.' is merely an observation of the nature of reality. To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.

  13. #13
    Erebus Pasha's Avatar vezir-i āzam
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Thanks Jim

    www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/
    Under the patronage of the Noble Savage.

  14. #14

    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Now whats Kaiserrieich? Is it too for Doomsday/Armageddon?

  15. #15
    yxc qwert!'s Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by scottishranger View Post
    Now whats Kaiserrieich? Is it too for Doomsday/Armageddon?
    It's a DD mod, but i heard it works for Arma too.
    REMOVE KEBAB FROM PREMISES

  16. #16
    jimkatalanos's Avatar 浪人
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Hmmm, isn't kaiserreich a fantasy mod, where Germany won ww2 or something like that?
    Ερωτηθεὶς τι ποτ' αυτώ περιγέγονεν εκ φιλοσοφίας, έφη, «Το ανεπιτάκτως ποιείν ά τινες διά τον από των νόμων φόβον ποιούσιν.


    Under the professional guidance of TWC's Zone expert Garbarsardar
    Patron of Noble Savage, Dimitri_Harkov, MasterOfThessus, The Fuzz, aja5191, Furin, neoptolemos, AnthoniusII, Legio, agisilaos, Romanos IV, Taiji, Leo, Jom, Jarlaxe






    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it.


    The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts.


    If you desire to be good, begin by believing that you are wicked.


    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.


    οὕτως ἀταλαίπωρος τοῖς πολλοῖς ἡ ζήτησις τῆς ἀληθείας, καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἑτοῖμα μᾶλλον τρέπονται.


    Questions are not necessarily there to be answered, but possibly there to inspire thinking.


    Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, - quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes.


    If mind is common to us, then also the reason, whereby we are reasoning beings, is common. If this be so, then also the reason which enjoins what is to be done or left undone is common. If this be so, law also is common; if this be so, we are citizens; if this be so, we are partakers in one constitution; if this be so, the Universe is a kind of commonwealth.


    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.


    There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
    Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
    From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
    Mastery of the self is mastery of the world. Loss of the self is the source of suffering.
    Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it.
    It is in our power to create the world, or destroy it.


    Homo homini lupus est. Homo sacra res homini.


    When deeds speak, words are nothing.


    Human history is a litany of blood, shed over different ideals of rulership and afterlife


    Sol lucet omnibus.


    You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.


    Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.


    The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.


    Ο Νούς νοεί τον εαυτόν του ως κράτιστος και η νόησή του είναι της νοήσεως νόησις.


    'Nothing is true, everything is permitted.' is merely an observation of the nature of reality. To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.

  17. #17
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by jimkatalanos View Post
    Hmmm, isn't kaiserreich a fantasy mod, where Germany won ww2 or something like that?
    It is. It also incorporates "all the russias" sans most of the caucasus events and others. Basically you have the german empire, which has taken many colonial possessions of the british and french, it's various satellite states (a large african puppet state, a chinese puppet state...maybe others i don't remember)...france and britain have succumbed to communist revolutions, the monarchy in britain has holed up in canada...the US has the potential to (usually) go to civil war with a number of different factions...india has 2 or 3 large competing factions...there's the ottoman empire contending with pan-arabic ambitions from the Egyptians and Saudis...the austrians have a much more decentralized state, with a large hungarian satellite with satellites of it's own, and events dealing with that internal conflict...a potential "third" balkan war between Greece, Serbia, Romania against Bulgaria...

    there is a LOT in that mod.

  18. #18
    jimkatalanos's Avatar 浪人
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by John I Tzimisces View Post
    It is. It also incorporates "all the russias" sans most of the caucasus events and others. Basically you have the german empire, which has taken many colonial possessions of the british and french, it's various satellite states (a large african puppet state, a chinese puppet state...maybe others i don't remember)...france and britain have succumbed to communist revolutions, the monarchy in britain has holed up in canada...the US has the potential to (usually) go to civil war with a number of different factions...india has 2 or 3 large competing factions...there's the ottoman empire contending with pan-arabic ambitions from the Egyptians and Saudis...the austrians have a much more decentralized state, with a large hungarian satellite with satellites of it's own, and events dealing with that internal conflict...a potential "third" balkan war between Greece, Serbia, Romania against Bulgaria...

    there is a LOT in that mod.
    Although it sounds interesting, I prefer realism and historical accuracy.
    Ερωτηθεὶς τι ποτ' αυτώ περιγέγονεν εκ φιλοσοφίας, έφη, «Το ανεπιτάκτως ποιείν ά τινες διά τον από των νόμων φόβον ποιούσιν.


    Under the professional guidance of TWC's Zone expert Garbarsardar
    Patron of Noble Savage, Dimitri_Harkov, MasterOfThessus, The Fuzz, aja5191, Furin, neoptolemos, AnthoniusII, Legio, agisilaos, Romanos IV, Taiji, Leo, Jom, Jarlaxe






    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it.


    The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts.


    If you desire to be good, begin by believing that you are wicked.


    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.


    οὕτως ἀταλαίπωρος τοῖς πολλοῖς ἡ ζήτησις τῆς ἀληθείας, καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἑτοῖμα μᾶλλον τρέπονται.


    Questions are not necessarily there to be answered, but possibly there to inspire thinking.


    Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, - quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes.


    If mind is common to us, then also the reason, whereby we are reasoning beings, is common. If this be so, then also the reason which enjoins what is to be done or left undone is common. If this be so, law also is common; if this be so, we are citizens; if this be so, we are partakers in one constitution; if this be so, the Universe is a kind of commonwealth.


    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.


    There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
    Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
    From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
    Mastery of the self is mastery of the world. Loss of the self is the source of suffering.
    Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it.
    It is in our power to create the world, or destroy it.


    Homo homini lupus est. Homo sacra res homini.


    When deeds speak, words are nothing.


    Human history is a litany of blood, shed over different ideals of rulership and afterlife


    Sol lucet omnibus.


    You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.


    Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.


    The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.


    Ο Νούς νοεί τον εαυτόν του ως κράτιστος και η νόησή του είναι της νοήσεως νόησις.


    'Nothing is true, everything is permitted.' is merely an observation of the nature of reality. To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.

  19. #19
    Erebus Pasha's Avatar vezir-i āzam
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    Quote Originally Posted by John I Tzimisces View Post
    It is. It also incorporates "all the russias" sans most of the caucasus events and others. Basically you have the german empire, which has taken many colonial possessions of the british and french, it's various satellite states (a large african puppet state, a chinese puppet state...maybe others i don't remember)...france and britain have succumbed to communist revolutions, the monarchy in britain has holed up in canada...the US has the potential to (usually) go to civil war with a number of different factions...india has 2 or 3 large competing factions...there's the ottoman empire contending with pan-arabic ambitions from the Egyptians and Saudis...the austrians have a much more decentralized state, with a large hungarian satellite with satellites of it's own, and events dealing with that internal conflict...a potential "third" balkan war between Greece, Serbia, Romania against Bulgaria...

    there is a LOT in that mod.
    I've downloaded this today and I'm having a lot of fun playing as Russia. America and Spain are in the midst of civil wars and Germany is taking on Japan in China.

    A very well thought out and entertaining mod.

    www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/
    Under the patronage of the Noble Savage.

  20. #20
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: HoI2 mods

    I kinda give up on historical accuracy in HoI2. The AI doesn't seem to really be able to handle things like naval invasions well at all (as in all p-dox games but...CK) and thus I think AI germany never really can be beaten? Except perhaps in HSR when the allies has to be led by the hand...

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