Keep them flowing!

[Scar Face]

I read James Bissett's sage commentary on immigration with a combination of sadness and anger. Like many native born Canadians I feel betrayed by the politicians we've elected. We now have one million approved immigrants standing at our gates clamouring for a share of our nation's wealth.

At the same time, our economy is in a downward spiral and threatening to go into freefall. Each downturn in a nation's economic fortunes results in increased unemployment and now unemployed Canadians will have to share the decreasing number of new jobs created with the millions waiting impatiently at our border.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...6-b6a083b25154

Largely looking at this from a Canadian perspective seeing as how I am Canadian, but, of course, others are encouraged to add into the debate. Should we [the west] continue our record breaking immigration even in the midst of Financial crisis?

[bushbush]

psh, pretty ignorant.

1. i didn't know Canada is in a financial disaster too, at least not right now.

2. new immigrants bring in investments and skills and more importantly consumptions to the economy, adding energy and vigor to the Canadian economy. They aren't just welfare eating bums LOL.

all in all, this is pretty typical from these people, always focusing selectively on one side's the issue, rather than looking at the full picture. But that's what exactly I expect, when the economy sneezes, some people are gonna panic and find scapegoats. But the irony is, even if they close their gate and chasing out everyone who doesn't look like them, they will probably just send the economy further down into recession.

btw, where the hell is Smith Falls lol...you heard of that place?

[Heinz Guderian]

They took our jobs. They must be stopped.

[Kleos]

2. new immigrants bring in investments and skills and more importantly consumptions to the economy, adding energy and vigor to the Canadian economy. They aren't just welfare eating bums LOL.

What a strange and pointless reply...Scar Face didn't say stop immigration, and the article only suggested a short breather for Canada while it organised a better system. I'm sure Scarface would love the worlds best and brightest at an ecologically suitable rate to enter Canada...what he is quite obviously against is the fact that the number entering Canada is too high in his opinion, and that not all migrants are these skilled gifts from heaven most would like us to believe. I won't claim to be an expert on Canadian migration issues, but if the figures are in anyway similar to Britain, the majority are not skilled workers (In Britain the figure is only 20%). So yes - you are certainy right in saying that "They aren't just welfare eating bums", but by the same token they are far from all "adding energy and vigor to the Canadian economy"

But the irony is, even if they close their gate and chasing out everyone who doesn't look like them, they will probably just send the economy further down into recession.

Who mentioned chasing anyone out? This, is typical of the sentiment of people who are against those who dare call for limits to migration - set up a straw man and make them look to be pseudo-Nazis looking for a scapegoat and wishing that all immigrants were forced out. If you cant adress the issue raised, why comment?

They took our jobs. They must be stopped.

This is basic economics; beveridge curve, phillips curve - simple supply and demand in action. As the labour pool increases beyond the vacancies for work; wages will decrease at worst, be constrained at best. But no, you continue - ignore the self-evident and dismiss anyone who dares mention this as being bigoted fools who are complaining about job stealing.

[Heinz Guderian]

This is basic economics; beveridge curve, phillips curve - simple supply and demand in action. As the labour pool increases beyond the vacancies for work; wages will decrease at worst, be constrained at best. But no, you continue - ignore the self-evident and dismiss anyone who dares mention this as being bigoted fools who are complaining about job stealing.

If learning about beveridge curves and phillips curves helps me hate immigrants more so be it! I blame imigrants for the current financial crisis anyway. Why? Cos i hate people who are not on equal level of education and whiteness to me. Moreover, considerig the impact of globalisation, they duk er derr.

[bushbush]

This is basic economics; beveridge curve, phillips curve - simple supply and demand in action. As the labour pool increases beyond the vacancies for work; wages will decrease at worst, be constrained at best. But no, you continue - ignore the self-evident and dismiss anyone who dares mention this as being bigoted fools who are complaining about job stealing.

are you ing serious? basic economics also tell you that people consume and live up to certain standard of living. These create even more jobs in various areas. New immigrants often tend to consume more than average canadians in their life time...buying new houses, new land, new everything. this adds a lot of vigor to the Canadian economy, especially during a time of potential downturn as well as the reality of an aging labor force.

[Kleos]

If learning about beveridge curves and phillips curves helps me hate immigrants more so be it! I blame imigrants for the current financial crisis anyway. Why? Cos i hate people who are not on equal level of education and whiteness to me. Moreover, considerig the impact of globalisation, they duk er derr.

Oh yes, how dare I state what leads me to my conclusion. Next time I'll just make something up.

Are you using humour as a defence mechanism?... because you've gone two posts without being able to counter what Scarface has raised, despite obviously disagreeing with him.

are you ing serious? basic economics also tell you that people consume and live up to certain standard of living. These create even more jobs in various areas. New immigrants often tend to consume more than average canadians in their life time...buying new houses, new land, new everything. this adds a lot of vigor to the Canadian economy, especially during a time of potential downturn as well as the reality of an aging labor force.

Okay...that doesn't contradict the part of my post you quoted:

This is basic economics; beveridge curve, phillips curve - simple supply and demand in action. As the labour pool increases beyond the vacancies for work; wages will decrease at worst, be constrained at best. But no, you continue - ignore the self-evident and dismiss anyone who dares mention this as being bigoted fools who are complaining about job stealing.

Now if you do want to adress the issue raised above concerning wages and supply of labour, I'm all ears. Untill them calm down; and get "ing serious" with sourcing your claims; because unless there is something drastically different in Canada the majority of evidence in the UK points to immigration having no effect on per capita national income, or that they consume more than the average inhabitant. And all evidence -everywhere- points out that the "aging labor force" and ageing populations being solved through migration myth the liberal-left repeats is exactly that - a myth.

well if we(immigrants) left wouldn't Canada have like half the population it does now.

No one or thing in this thread has said you should leave!

Immigrants don't take all your jobs. They mostly take the lower income and lower education jobs.

Thankyou for correcting...oh no wait, hold on...

no one said immigrants take all the jobs!

[Erik]

Should we [the west] continue our record breaking immigration even in the midst of Financial crisis?

IMO no.

I think we should only let immigrants in if there is a job opportunity for them.
I'm also in favor of a "green card" or similar system for the EU.
Only exception should be for refugees.

But the reverse should also be true: when the economy is booming and there is a labor shortage we should let more skilled people in.
In the past years my government made it almost impossible to immigrate to my country, but at the same time companies couldn't find enough people to hire. (unemployment was still about 2% - but those are just lazy people who don't want to work, everybody could find a job if they wanted to).

[antares24]

IMO no.

I think we should only let immigrants in if there is a job opportunity for them.
I'm also in favor of a "green card" or similar system for the EU.
Only exception should be for refugees.

But the reverse should also be true: when the economy is booming and there is a labor shortage we should let more skilled people in.
In the past years my government made it almost impossible to immigrate to my country, but at the same time companies couldn't find enough people to hire. (unemployment was still about 2% - but those are just lazy people who don't want to work, everybody could find a job if they wanted to).

i agree with erik (WTF? ). If we need a certain number of people with particular skills (nurse for example) let them come, otherwise we will be letting in people who would remain unemployed, so that they would either end on welfare programs, and so be a burden, or resort to crime, and be an even worse problem.

And bushbush, many immigrants bring their spouse and kids and relatives, so that they effectively become a burdern for their host country. There was a nice british parliament report (here http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/c...&bbram=1&asb=1) that highlighted how immigrations benefits to an economy were minimal, and had little to no impact on the well being of the host country citizen.
Add the crime increase from immigration, the cost of the education of immigrants kids, of immigrants health care and so on, and yes immigration result in a burden.

[Scar Face]

IMO no.

I think we should only let immigrants in if there is a job opportunity for them.
I'm also in favor of a "green card" or similar system for the EU.
Only exception should be for refugees.

But the reverse should also be true: when the economy is booming and there is a labor shortage we should let more skilled people in.
In the past years my government made it almost impossible to immigrate to my country, but at the same time companies couldn't find enough people to hire. (unemployment was still about 2% - but those are just lazy people who don't want to work, everybody could find a job if they wanted to).

I couldn't agree more. If there is a labour shortage, bring in immigrants. Make sure they can assimilate, make sure they aren't the odd radical, make sure they have basic language and academic skills- welcome to Canada. It's a little different here though; rather, 7.5% of Canadians are unemployed, 1/8th of Canadian Children are in poverty, Immigrants are 3X more likely to sit on Welfare for years, they are given billions of dollars in order to reeducate themselves, and are given preference in jobs they don't have the qualifications for (affirmative action)- not to mention the enormous cost going into to teaching their children how to speak our language, and so forth, all the while the vast majority [around 80%] have no academic qualifications what so ever.

So yeah, its time for a change. The Conservatives are working on bringing in educated immigrants, but they are still raising the numbers when its not required, and we have one million immigrants who, by law, are required to become Canadians- this was done before the Conservative reform, so bets are, the vast majority are terrible.

[Grof]

I couldn't agree more. If there is a labour shortage, bring in immigrants. Make sure they can assimilate, make sure they aren't the odd radical, make sure they have basic language and academic skills- welcome to Canada. It's a little different here though; rather, 7.5% of Canadians are unemployed, 1/8th of Canadian Children are in poverty, Immigrants are 3X more likely to sit on Welfare for years, they are given billions of dollars in order to reeducate themselves, and are given preference in jobs they don't have the qualifications for (affirmative action)- not to mention the enormous cost going into to teaching their children how to speak our language, and so forth, all the while the vast majority [around 80%] have no academic qualifications what so ever.

So yeah, its time for a change. The Conservatives are working on bringing in educated immigrants, but they are still raising the numbers when its not required, and we have one million immigrants who, by law, are required to become Canadians- this was done before the Conservative reform, so bets are, the vast majority are terrible.

Let me tell you that the level of education and the schools that some of these Immigrants go to is way better than what they have in Canada. Despite of what you might think not all immigrants are stupid and can only work on farms.

[Polaris]

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...6-b6a083b25154

Largely looking at this from a Canadian perspective seeing as how I am Canadian, but, of course, others are encouraged to add into the debate. Should we [the west] continue our record breaking immigration even in the midst of Financial crisis?

I am against it... 500th generation Canadian.. We have our own problems right now, we can't let in more problems. They should take they're troubles elsewhere..

btw, where the hell is Smith Falls lol...you heard of that place?

Half an hour south-west of Ottawa, roughly.

i agree with erik (WTF? ). If we need a certain number of people with particular skills (nurse for example) let them come, otherwise we will be letting in people who would remain unemployed, so that they would either end on welfare programs, and so be a burden, or resort to crime, and be an even worse problem.

And bushbush, many immigrants bring their spouse and kids and relatives, so that they effectively become a burdern for their host country. There was a nice british parliament report (here http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/c...&bbram=1&asb=1) that highlighted how immigrations benefits to an economy were minimal, and had little to no impact on the well being of the host country citizen.
Add the crime increase from immigration, the cost of the education of immigrants kids, of immigrants health care and so on, and yes immigration result in a burden.

I agree with your opinion on letting them in if they WILL contribute a certain skill or asset that we're in need of. They should enhance the screening process even further before letting them in legally, IMO.

EDIT: BTW, I'm against certain immigrants being allowed in, particularly all refugees, certain countries should be barred from access to Canada.

[Sebdeas]

500th generation Canadian

Either you're an Eskimo, or you're ting.

Immigrants don't take all your jobs. They mostly take the lower income and lower education jobs.

[Каие]

OK....so thread number 6 started by you concerning "imgrants gon kill us and tek our cuntry!"? Haven't got tired of being beaten?

I'm guessing this is your worst nightmare....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A Black Canadian Lumberjack...NOOOOOO!

[Grof]

well if we(immigrants) left wouldn't Canada have like half the population it does now.

[Kleos]

Right...so when are you sourcing your claims again?...at least you've backed away from claiming that labour supply dooesn't have an effect on wages.

And if migration isn't going to solve the problem in Europe, its not going to solve it in Canada. Unless you want to offer evidence to the contrary. Which its clear you do not.

[bushbush]

Right...so when are you sourcing your claims again?...at least you've backed away from claiming that labour supply dooesn't have an effect on wages.

1. read the post again son lol.

2. doesn't have an effect? when did i say that? I think history seems to show a positive effect, in fact, an increase of real wage.

another good reading would be Trade liberalization, mass migration, and capital movements, chapter 3-4 of book Globalization and History (1999).

And if migration isn't going to solve the problem in Europe, its not going to solve it in Canada. Unless you want to offer evidence to the contrary. Which its clear you do not.

1. you haven't established they face the same problem.

2. you haven't established they have the same immigration policy?

3. now you saying 2# can't solve #1 in Canada without establishing both? wtf is wrong with you man.

[Kleos]

1. read the post again son lol.

2. doesn't have an effect? when did i say that? I think history seems to show a positive effect, in fact, an increase of real wage.

another good reading would be Trade liberalization, mass migration, and capital movements, chapter 3-4 of book Globalization and History (1999).



1. you haven't established they face the same problem.

2. you haven't established they have the same immigration policy?

3. now you saying 2# can't solve #1 in Canada without establishing both? wtf is wrong with you man.

Wow, you're on quite a roll. You've yet to adress anything mentioned in Scarface's opening post, yet to disprove that an increase in the labour pool in times of economic stagantion will not help the average wage, have not provided evidence supporting your claims concerning the ageing populations - despite my evidence from the UK and Europe; and as for recent immigration (In a topic concerning current financial crisis, and a country that was founded and built by immigrants - I was under the impression that from the context of the post that most would be wise enought to realise I meant recent migration!) increasing the GDP -I've never argued it hasn't!- but you have failed to counter my query as to whether or not the per capita has increased. Its all really quite pathetic.

And you are asking me "wtf is wrong with you man" ?! Your logic would be amusing if it were not so worrying!

[bushbush]

Wow, you're on quite a roll. You've yet to adress anything mentioned in Scarface's opening post, yet to disprove that an increase in the labour pool in times of economic stagantion will not help the average wage, have not provided evidence supporting your claims concerning the ageing populations - despite my evidence from the UK and Europe; and as for recent immigration (In a topic concerning current financial crisis, and a country that was founded and built by immigrants - I was under the impression that from the context of the post that most would be wise enought to realise I meant recent migration!) increasing the GDP -I've never argued it hasn't!- but you have failed to counter my query as to whether or not the per capita has increased. Its all really quite pathetic.

And you are asking me "wtf is wrong with you man" ?! Your logic would be amusing if it were not so worrying!

LMAO, ok, your primary is that you base your evidence from Britain....assuming that Britain has the similiar economic condition, immigration policy, and immigration make up as Canada. LOL...

if you gonna apply your studies from Britain on Canada, first please establish to me that they are same in everything i have listed above.

[PakistanLover]

I disagree. How does ones spouse come to canada then? Will the Canadian government take responsiblity for broken marriages?