Cumania (and Popes)

[Boztorgai_Khan]

Yeah I'm having CTDs in my Cumans campaign but only when attacking Byzantine Large Stone Walls.

I could try photoshopping some unit skins to at least take away the blonde hair and maybe adding some more asiatic textures.


Of course I've never added a new unit, only edited pre-existing ones.

Edit; I've had some success! I changed the name of the inaccurate "Altar of Tengri" to "Pagan Altar", as Tengri was the Mongol sky god, not a god of the Cumans/Kipchaks. I've also changed the description and name of "Sanctuary of Tegri" and "Temple of Tengri" to "Pagan Sanctuary" and "Pagan Temple".

I changed the names and descriptions of the following units:
- "Tartar Lancers" and "Dismounted Tartar Lancers" to "Kipchak Lancers" and "Dismounted Kipchak Lancers"
- "Pecheneg Heavy Cavalry" to "Kipchak Heavy Cavalry"

Basically because although some Pechenegs and Tartars were absorbed into the ranks of the Cumans/Kipchaks there's certainly no evidence that they formed entire units.

Now the next thing is to actually change some of the units to look less european:

I think the easiest thing to start with is change the EE_Militia Spearmen to ME_Militia Spearmen but I haven't tried yet.

The other offending units are: Cavalry Militia (EE_Cavalry_Militia), Cossack Cavalry, Cossack Gunners and Cossack Musketeers.

I would really like to change Cossack Cavalry to something else, maybe Turcomans but that's not really 100% accurate either. Maybe I could change the name of Turcomans to Tribal Horsearchers and then change the ownership to include Cumans. It does mean that we'd be compromising the authenicity of a Seljuk/Khwarezmian unit for a Cuman unit.

The other option is to delete the pecheneg infantry, copy the turcoman unit and paste it in as a new unit. But as I said I've never actually done that.

Hmm.. Okay.

Altar was one of Tengriism prophet / great cleric.
Kök Tengri is it true. It mean Sky God.

Altar, Ülgen, Gulten, Asena, Eje ect more names is meaning also in islam Muhammad, Ali ect and in other religions Jezus, Mozes ect.
Maybe you understand me now better.


Kipchak language telling the means of Tengriist/Shamanism not Pagan.

The Codex is generally regarded as accurate, but it differs slightly from other sources on Kipchak language. For example, the Codex's Pater Noster reads:

Atamız kim köktesiñ. Alğışlı bolsun seniñ atıñ, kelsin seniñ xanlığıñ, bolsun seniñ tilemekiñ – neçikkim kökte, alay [da] yerde. Kündeki ötmegimizni bizge bugün bergil. Dağı yazuqlarımıznı bizge boşatqıl – neçik biz boşatırbiz bizge yaman etkenlerge. Dağı yekniñ sınamaqına bizni quurmağıl. Basa barça yamandan bizni qutxarğıl.

In Anatolian Turkish, the text is:
Atamız sen göktesin. Alkışlı (kutlu) olsun senin adın, gelsin senin hanlığın, olsun senin dileğin– nasıl ki gökte, ve yerde. Gündelik ekmeğimizi bize bugün ver. Ve de yazıklarımızdan (suçlarımızdan) bizi bağışla– nasıl biz bağışlarız bize yaman (kötülük) edenleri. Ve de şeytanın sınamasından bizi koru. Tüm yamandan (kötülükten) bizi kurtar. Amin!

In English, the text is:
Our Father which art in heaven. Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins as we forgive those who have done us evil. Amen.

The same text in the Hungarian Cumania document reads: "bezen attamaz kenze kikte, szenleszen szenadon, dsn szenkklon, nicziegen gerde ali kekte, bezen akomazne oknemezne ber bezge pitbtr kngon..."

A complete Hungarian Cuman translation of the Pater Noster reads: "Bezen attamaz kenze kikte szen lészen szen adon dösön szen küklön nitziengen gerde ali kikte bezen akomezne oknemezne bergezge pitbütör küngön ill bezen menemezne neszen bezde jermez berge utrogergene illme bezne algyamanna kutkor bezne algyamanna szen börsön boka csalli batson igye tengria. Ámen."




In the beginning, the Kimak state incorporated seven related tribes: Kimaks, Yamak, Kipchaks, Tatar (Kimek Khanate), Bayandur, Lanikaz, and Ajlad. At its height, the Kimak Kaganate had 12 nuclear tribes, and extended from the Irtysh river and Altai mountains in the east to the Black Sea steppe in the west, into the taiga fringes in the north, and southward it reached into the desert-steppe. After their decline, the Jeti-Su Kimaks retreated back to the upper Irtysh region, and the western Kipchak-Kimaks settled in the North Pontic steppes. The Kimaks were originally Tengrians.

[HighLord z0b]

I've never read anything that said Kychaqs/Cumans worshipped Tengri, not until they became part of the Golden Horde. They were "pagan" as they worshipped many spirits and gods.

Anyway I can easily change that back.

[alibala]

Ancient turks worshipped Tengri which means God

[HighLord z0b]

Actually all the archeology I've seen points to the Cumans/Kipchaqs being pagans and shamanists/animinsts worshiping many animal/nature spirits and different gods. Tengri was a sky god, one of many gods that certain turkic tribes worshipped but there is no evidence that I've seen that the pre-mongol invasion Cumans worshipped Tengri.

The only reference is a byzantine document that mentioned that the Cumans prayed to the first animal they saw in the morning.

Finally, I will point out that as far as I know the name changes in this mod will be included in the 6.2 patch, so any further changes to the Cumans that I make I will probably put into my own mod.

[baksases]

My family moved to Hungary during the mongolian invasion, so they definitely did not assimilate with the mongols, still, my grandfather taught me the Pater Noster ending with "bo kacsali, bo csonyogi Tengri, Amen. This stands for everyone else who ever prayed in cumanian in Hungary, so I do not think you are right with Tengri not being a cuman god.