Cumania (and Popes)

[caralampio]

Cumania
This mod attempts to make a better representation of the Cumans or Kipchaks in Stainless Steel. The names currently existing for them in the game are Arabic and Turkish, which is incorrect. Cumania gives the Cuman faction more accurate Kipchak names. Edit: See below. (They have also been given a Middle Eastern look for buildings and character portraits).

Very special thanks to Boztorgai_Khan, who made this possible by providing a list of Cuman names and background.

Numberless Popes
I figured that since this is a names mod, I might as well include another project I've been working on. Character Names Project gave Popes a numeral (Gregorius VII for example). This supposedly to give them a more "Popish" sound. However, by that reasoning kings should have numerals as well (William II, Heinrich IV, Alfonso VI and so on). Besides, there is the annoying quirk that Gregorius X might be followed by Gregorius VIII (or even worse, by Gregorius X !!!). And, Papal states agents and generals also have those weird names with numerals. Numberless Popes removes the numerals (Popes are named simply Gregorius, Julius, etc. with no number).

Instructions: Backup all files that will be overwritten. Place the files as follows:
descr_names, descr_names_lookup (and descr_sm_factions) in Stainless_Steel_6/data

Edit: Forget about descr_sm_factions, don't copy it. Changing to mideastern culture does some weird things to religious buildings. Sorry folks, we'll have to keep the western looks for now.

names in Stainless_Steel_6/data/text
the two descr_strat files in Stainless_Steel_6/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign and Stainless_Steel_6/world/maps/campaign/custom/Late_Era_Campaign
in the same order as they are given in the download.

In the case that for some unfathomable reason you want only the Cumania mod without the popes mod, use the alternative file that is given alongside each of the two descr_strat and descr_names files (in a folder called no Pope fix).

Compatibility with other submods: Should be compatible with any mod not altering the files given here. Even then, merging the files is probably possible.

[Boztorgai_Khan]

Thank You.. Brother,

I Go Now Edit this.

[eskrogh]

ehhm caralampio i triyed to put the files in the names veritfier, folder, and when i startet the program... to see if it would work? it showed 265 errors...? does it work?
or is it the name vertifier, that show erros with new names? i havent played it yet, since one of my friends, would try to borrow the games, for i dont know...

[caralampio]

ehhm caralampio i triyed to put the files in the names veritfier, folder, and when i startet the program... to see if it would work? it showed 265 errors...? does it work?
or is it the name vertifier, that show erros with new names? i havent played it yet, since one of my friends, would try to borrow the games, for i dont know...

Names verifier? Not familiar with that. The mod works in my game, I tested both the early and late games. Just make sure you put everything where it goes.

The game even works if you use the sm_factions file, but it has some weird effects- no description for Tengir's temples (easy to fix), you get madrasas and racing tracks (which isn't so bad) but also you get arabic voices from the units, the priests are identified as imams and they convert for islam!

I believe the Cumans would be better using a middle eastern style, if someone knows how to fix this it would be cool.

I also think that Cuman units should have models more like the mongols, but modding that is out of my field (for now). It isn't cool that they look like Russians.

[The Cobra]

Respect for us names and history.

[spanish_emperor]

well i was doing the same for the Cumans, guess it not necessary anymore.

good job

[eskrogh]

well i was doing the same for the Cumans, guess it not necessary anymore.

good job

i was always doing it... i only needed to change the last few names in the descr_strat

[eskrogh]

every religion has its own building style?

[caralampio]

Actually it is cultural types, there are northern-european, southern-european, eastern-european and middle-eastern. This affects the faces you see for characters, the buildings you can build, and as I discovered recently, religion.

[Cuman]

thank you

[HighLord z0b]

So does the Cumania mod just edit the character names or does it also change units/buildings etc.?

I edited the EDU to allow Cuman horse archers to get an armour upgrade to leather, it's both historically accurate and balanced compared to all the other horse archer units in the game.

To do this you need to edit the EDU

Find the Cuman Horse Archers and replace the lines

armour_ug_levels 0
armour_ug_models Cuman_Horse_Archers

with

armour_ug_levels 0, 1
armour_ug_models Cuman_Horse_Archers, Kazaks_ug1

I've tested this, it works and the units look fine.

I don't think that there's anything particuarly wrong with the looks of the cuman horse archer skins, except I would like to see a unit that has more armour than the basic Cuman Horse Archer and less than the Cuman Nobles.

Or maybe change the name of the Cossack Cavalry to Kipchak Cavalry

[caralampio]

This mod only changes the names. It should have made them have a middle eastern style as well, but it didn't work (see OP).

I am trying to give Cuman units that look like Russians a more eastern appearance, but so far no luck (it is beyond my current level of expertise ).

I'll make the change you suggest in my game, High Lord z0b, it makes sense.

[HighLord z0b]

I've been trying to make some other modifications to the Cumans;

Changing the name of the religious buildings from "Altar of Tengri" to "Pagan Altar".

Changing some unit names and stats.

I've also thought about changing the look. I really don't mind the Cuman Horse Archers that much, they're just a bit too brown, otherwise I think they look quite authentic, but could be better. I've been thinking of using other horse archer models/skins that look more detailed and asiatic, rather than actually reskinning them myself. Would you be interested if I actually end up finishing that?

[caralampio]

Sure HighLordZob, my efforts in that direction have met a wall as my unit editing and especially my skinning abilities are limited.

I think that all Cuman units that look asiatic (about half) are fine. I would like all the units with Russian clothes and faces to be substituted by oriental types, preferably looking more like Mongols, if not possible, looking like middle eastern units will have to do.

For instance I have been working in making ME levy spearmen the basic Cuman spear instead of EE spear militia, I have been partly successful but I still have some units that look like Terminator 2

I also think that the faction would be better with ME cultural type, but if it could be modded so it does not have islamic tendencies. E.g., ME looks, but pagan tendencies.

[HighLord z0b]

Well if manage to get all that working I'll let you know. I did a bunch of research on the Kipchaks for the now defunct Medieval Acturiso mod so I'm applying some of my ideas to modding the Cumans.

[HighLord z0b]

Well I've almost finished my campaign as the Cumans, which serves as testing of their gameplay and coincides with my concerns of their look and their units which is pretty much the same as yours Caralampio. Here are my conclusions in regards to units;

Whilst their strengths are supposed to be "Excellent horsearchers and good cavalry." they don't really have better horse archers than anyone else and their cavalry is subpar.

However their weakness "Lacks heavy infantry, somewhat mediocre spearmen." is certainly true. They have to rely heavily on mercenaries if they want to win any kind of decent siege battle. A lot of their potential enemies (Seljuks, Kwharezmians, Byzantines, Hungary, Novgorod, Mongols etc.) will be able to field armies that have equal horse archers but much better infantry, both spearmen and heavy, giving them a better combined force.

This is made particuarly hard as their starting position is particuarly unpopulated, with only small wooden forts around, so even their access to their better units is particuarly limited until they conquer a more populated terriroty, which of course is difficult with an essentially cavalry army.

I would completely remove the almost redundant and essentially useless "pecheneg infantry" and the european looking Cuman Axeman and replace it with some sort of more asiatic heavy infantry.

They indeed need a more asiatic/turkic unit for their horse archer upgrade instead of the current Cossack Cavalry which is a european unit. As SS is up to it's unit max I think giving them Turkomans or something like that instead is a better compromise. After all the Cumans were a tribal turkic people.

The good thing is that they are a real challenge to play and after all that's what most people want when they install SS.

[caralampio]

Good news HighLord Zob. Personally I have not finished a Cuman campaign yet. To be frank, the Russian-looking units along with the perspective of a Mongol invasion kind of turn me down.

I hope that King Kong takes a good look at the Cumans for the next SS.

While you played, did you get any CTD's or glitches? I have had a inordinately large number of CTD's during the Cumans turn (when they are AI) and I wonder if they have some bug.

Not related to my mod of course , because I have already double checked it and fine-tuned it with Names Verifier. I didn't find any problems in my test with the originally posted materials, but as eskrogh pointed out there were a lot of inconsistencies in descr.names.lookup. AFAIK, something missing in DNL does not cause problems in the game but lets suppose it might. Here's the update.

[Gorrrrrn]

caralampio - anything in particular needs doing about the Cumans from a strategic point of view (persoanlly I'd shift their start position further south and west) for next SS.

simple tweaks?

[caralampio]

The Cumans started around the Volga and conquered parts of Russia all the way to Moldavia and Transylvania. Of course, the conquest part is up to the player. I think the starting area is OK because otherwise it would interfere too much with Kievan Rus.

I'm more concerned about the looks of Cuman units, several of them should have a more mongolic or turkish look. Having them as blond Russian types certainly doesn't do.

[HighLord z0b]

Yeah I'm having CTDs in my Cumans campaign but only when attacking Byzantine Large Stone Walls.

I could try photoshopping some unit skins to at least take away the blonde hair and maybe adding some more asiatic textures.


Of course I've never added a new unit, only edited pre-existing ones.

Edit; I've had some success! I changed the name of the inaccurate "Altar of Tengri" to "Pagan Altar", as Tengri was the Mongol sky god, not a god of the Cumans/Kipchaks. I've also changed the description and name of "Sanctuary of Tegri" and "Temple of Tengri" to "Pagan Sanctuary" and "Pagan Temple".

I changed the names and descriptions of the following units:
- "Tartar Lancers" and "Dismounted Tartar Lancers" to "Kipchak Lancers" and "Dismounted Kipchak Lancers"
- "Pecheneg Heavy Cavalry" to "Kipchak Heavy Cavalry"

Basically because although some Pechenegs and Tartars were absorbed into the ranks of the Cumans/Kipchaks there's certainly no evidence that they formed entire units.

Now the next thing is to actually change some of the units to look less european:

I think the easiest thing to start with is change the EE_Militia Spearmen to ME_Militia Spearmen but I haven't tried yet.

The other offending units are: Cavalry Militia (EE_Cavalry_Militia), Cossack Cavalry, Cossack Gunners and Cossack Musketeers.

I would really like to change Cossack Cavalry to something else, maybe Turcomans but that's not really 100% accurate either. Maybe I could change the name of Turcomans to Tribal Horsearchers and then change the ownership to include Cumans. It does mean that we'd be compromising the authenicity of a Seljuk/Khwarezmian unit for a Cuman unit.

The other option is to delete the pecheneg infantry, copy the turcoman unit and paste it in as a new unit. But as I said I've never actually done that.