Is Russia a democracy?

[Astaroth]

NOTE:

a) mods, please do not simply close it because it looks similar to the other topic. I have numerous reasons for making this:
1) the other topic was bumped and is way too long already anyway
2) the other topic's poll is closed
3) I want to make a public poll
4) this poll is more, shall I say, "direct"

Thanks in advance.

b) voters, please try to give reasons for your vote.

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Here some information on my opinion:

Here are major, internationally recognized studies ALL proving that Russia isn't free:

warning - big pics.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Blue= not free, Green=free - freedom house

- freedom in the world report

Civil liberties - green free, orange/yellow-red - degrees of opression
Russia on a level with Iran and China, good job.




Press freedom worldwide. - reporters without borders



Electoral democracies (2008) - freedom house

light blue - dark blue, degrees of democracy (index of democracy by - the economist)

Here some links for extra information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwi..._Index_Ranking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_indices_of_freedom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World_(report)

[Heathen Hammer]

1) Russia has freedom of media:
A) There are multiple media sources like RenTV, TNT, Echoe of Moscow, Kommersant, etc that represent opinion of anti-Kremlin opposition.
B) People in Russia have full access to foreign media.
2) Russia has democratic government. There are elections, parliament, etc. Most of deceisions are made not by president but by Duma(parliament).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Russia

Most of organizations like Freedom House did not consider these facts in their reports, by simply ignoring them. Thus, these reports can be considered biased.
Therefore, Russia is democracy.

[Astaroth]

1) Russia has freedom of media:
A) There are multiple media sources like RenTV, TNT, Echoe of Moscow, Kommersant, etc that represent opinion of anti-Kremlin opposition.

Nobody has ever denied that. But the mass media are still govt controlled - you can read ALL reports on the 2007 elections, from Africa, America, Europe, Asia WHATEVER and they ALL say that the elections were NOT fair because the media coverage was 100% unfair.
The majority of the people saw only Medvedev, many people didnt even know the other candidates and when the others were shown in the main TV channels they were ridiculed. A country like that is not a democracy.

B) People in Russia have full access to foreign media.

That hardly matters and the Kremlin doesnt care about it at all because the people watch "Kremlin TV" all day long anyway.

2) Russia has democratic government. There are elections, parliament, etc. Most of deceisions are made not by president but by Duma(parliament).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Russia

Zimbabwe has elections and a parliament too. Is it a democracy? No. Totally irrelevant.

Most of organizations like Freedom House did not consider these facts in their reports, by simply ignoring them. Thus, these reports can be considered biased.
Therefore, Russia is democracy.

Yeah and why did the democracy study be "The Economist" based in London, the freedom of press one (Reporters sans frontiers) based in Paris, an orginally French organization and Amnety International, not exactly known for being pro-US at all, ALL have the EXACT same opinion, ALL saying that Russia is not free and not democratic?
You think its an evil conspiracy?

Seriously, major, international NGOs, unbiased, respected, accepted - many of them, based in many different, relieable, democratic countries agree with me.

Who agrees with you? Nobody. Oh yeah, .Czar.

[LegendI]

That hardly matters and the Kremlin doesnt care about it at all because the people watch "Kremlin TV" all day long anyway.

Americans can go on other sites and read about Russia's invasion of Georgia being to protect its citizens and enforcing the peacekeeping mission launched there in the start of the 90s, but do they? Nope. They go on CNN and hear that Russia has violated international law and has "invaded" a foreign country without explaining the other side. The human tendency to distort the truth and say that the guys living on the other side are evil is all too common.

Zimbabwe has elections and a parliament too. Is it a democracy? No. Totally irrelevant.

I agree that what you said was irrelevant sunlight. This is Russia.

Yeah and why did the democracy study be "The Economist" based in London, the freedom of press one (Reporters sans frontiers) based in Paris, an orginally French organization and Amnety International, not exactly known for being pro-US at all, ALL have the EXACT same opinion, ALL saying that Russia is not free and not democratic?
You think its an evil conspiracy?

Because they are so advanced and western, I would love to think that to some extent it isn't an evil conspiracy. But the truth is that it is an evil conspiracy. To put it simply, westerners have been crapping their pants for the last century (actually maybe even longer) about Russia and they can't stop.

Seriously, major, international NGOs, unbiased, respected, accepted - many of them, based in many different, relieable, democratic countries agree with me.

Life is about questioning things and not just accepting what others tell you or accepting what a popular consensus is. So just question yourself. Why are democratic countries so unbiased to you?

Who agrees with you? Nobody. Oh yeah, .Czar.

I agree with him and so do over a 100 million other people living in Russia and other countries.

[YuriVII]

Oh look, USA has political repression too!!!! They refuse to allow Ron Paul with thousands of supporters to speak at the Republican National Convention!!!! What tyranny!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1hDHCDh18Y

You notice it is by Russia Today, it is more or less my point. All of these medias if they be privatley owned or not are biased to their respective countries. RT uses Ron Paul like CNN uses Garry Kasparov. It is all a game of asymmetrical warfare. I suggest you do not get caught up in it too much.

Plus FirstManOnTheMoon, dont you mean +реп ?????

[FirstManOnTheMoon]

Plus FirstManOnTheMoon, dont you mean +реп ?????

yeah. I switched to english though.

[Каие]

There are many different democracies, although not perfect. It is a democracy.

[Noble Savage]

Will leave this open , a previous discussion on this topic can be found at

Powerwizards "Is Russia a democratic state
Ta Noble Savage

[attilavolciak07]

Like what Rome said, they are many different variations of democracy. The definition of democracy is:

'Democracy' is a form of government in which the supreme power is held completely by the people under a free electoral system.

Now you have to understand that no country in the world pertains to the above definition. Scholars still debate but to no avail over the true universal meaning of democracy, however it is summed down to about two points:

1. The first principle is that all members of the society have equal access to power

Which is impossible in my eyes, a poor hobo has a very limited chance of getting out of his own lifestyle, unless he happens to find a million dollar bill lying somewhere. Democracy may seem like everyone gets the chance and prospect for leadership, but you must have good connections and possibly a lot in the bank, and be a good all-around guy or gal. So once again, my answer is that no country ever met, meets or ever will meet this standard.

2. that all members enjoy universally recognized freedoms and liberties

This can't be true in every country either, because we have not weighed what is consdered too unjust to no liberty at all. Sort of like, "Is having your Internet watched breaking a civil liberty", the thing is that you may never know, and might not for a long until we sit down and decide upon it.
And Russia has not the perfect freedom of the press option either, UN sources and other reliable sources such as Freedom House have criticised Russia over the mysterious deaths of journalists reporting controversial evidence on the battle field (most noticably in Chechnya).

So all in all, Russia is not a democracy by official terms, nor is the United States or any other country. Until I learn what exactly makes a democracy and if I see a country actually perform those functions, I vote 'no'.

[Guy de Yoyo]

It isn't a democracy. Freedom of press is crucial to this claim. Here's the annual ranking from Reporters Without Borders. Russia on place 144 of 169.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=24025

[Panzerbear]

It isn't a democracy. Freedom of press is crucial to this claim. Here's the annual ranking from Reporters Without Borders. Russia on place 144 of 169.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=24025

Reporters without border's freedom of press rating is a laughable.

why? simple.

Russia is considered so ed up (even though it has some world quality independent media outlets which translate signal across entire world, unrestricted access to opposition media and newspapers, unrestricted access to internet, and so on and so forth), to the point that it is WORSE THAN:

Yemen
Afghanistan
Sudan
Sierra Leone

and.... drum roll.... Georgia (the country which actually went as far as closing down entire TV channels, putting internet blockades against "undesirable" websites, etc).

I suppose we all should be glad that this wonderful NGO placed Russia higher than Rwanda, Ethiopia and Somalia ?

[attilavolciak07]

and.... drum roll.... Georgia (the country which actually went as far as closing down entire TV channels, putting internet blockades against "undesirable" websites, etc).

Maybe because.....drum roll......Russian cyberattacks!

[Guy de Yoyo]

Reporters without border's freedom of press rating is a laughable.

why? simple.

Russia is considered so ed up (even though it has some world quality independent media outlets, unrestricted access to opposition media and newspapers, unrestricted access to internet, and so on and so forth), to the point that it is WORSE THAN:

Yemen
Afghanistan
Sudan
Sierra Leone

and.... drum roll.... Georgia (the country which actually went as far as closing down entire TV channels, putting internet blockades against "undesirable" websites, etc).

I suppose we all should be glad that this wonderful NGO placed Russia higher than Rwanda, Ethiopia and Somalia?

Czar, I provided a SOURCE. Now it's your turn to prove your claims. As you said: ROG is a non-government organization. What could they possibly win by spreading lies?

[Astaroth]

kb8, and how exactly can a country that is "not free", does not have free media, has unfair elections etc be considered a "democracy"?

Thanks, Noble Savage

[Каие]

kb8, and how exactly can a country that is "not free", does not have free media, has unfair elections etc be considered a "democracy"?

Like this;

• Defensive democracy, a situation in which a democratic society has to limit some rights and freedoms in order to protect the institutions of the democracy.

[Heathen Hammer]

Nobody has ever denied that. But the mass media are still govt controlled - you can read ALL reports on the 2007 elections, from Africa, America, Europe, Asia WHATEVER and they ALL say that the elections were NOT fair because the media coverage was 100% unfair.
The majority of the people saw only Medvedev, many people didnt even know the other candidates and when the others were shown in the main TV channels they were ridiculed. A country like that is not a democracy.

Weird. I was watching Russian channels during election. Most of channells promote different parties. Most of RenTV stuff was pro-Bogdanov, "Nostalgia" was pro-Zuganov and NTV was pro-Medvedev. So its not true, that media coverage was unfair.

That hardly matters and the Kremlin doesnt care about it at all because the people watch "Kremlin TV" all day long anyway.

Jusging by this argument, you have absolutely no idea of what is going on in Russia.
According to polls, most Russians prefer Internet to TV.

Zimbabwe has elections and a parliament too. Is it a democracy? No. Totally irrelevant.

What has Russia ever done like Zimbabwe did? Does Russia has religious fanatism? No. Does Russia has rogue political ideology? No. Does Russia have free elections? Yes. It is a democracy.

Yeah and why did the democracy study be "The Economist" based in London, the freedom of press one (Reporters sans frontiers) based in Paris, an orginally French organization and Amnety International, not exactly known for being pro-US at all, ALL have the EXACT same opinion, ALL saying that Russia is not free and not democratic?
You think its an evil conspiracy?

They all ignored the facts, that I have provided above. As I already said, it doesn't matter, what did motivate them to lie in reports.

[Astaroth]

Weird. I was watching Russian channels during election. Most of channells promote different parties. Most of RenTV stuff was pro-Bogdanov, "Nostalgia" was pro-Zuganov and NTV was pro-Medvedev. So its not true, that media coverage was unfair.

Sigh. Did you miss the part saying "mass media"? Lmao. And also weird that ALLL!!!!!!! media sources from ALL!!!!! over the world (even anti US countries) said that the elections were unfair. Another situation of "im right the world is wrong"?

Jusging by this argument, you have absolutely no idea of what is going on in Russia

.

According to polls, most Russians prefer Internet to TV.

This is a) nonsense until you prove it ("some polls say that", ok right wtf?!) and b) irrelevant - the mass TV media are govt controlled and very biased, no matter how you turn it. Govt owned alone isnt the problem - BBC is pretty fair and govt owned (iirc). Biased is also not a huge problem - if a channel is 100% private and the owner decides to be pro- one party, well his problem.
The problem is the combination: govt owned+biased. That doesnt mix well.

What has Russia ever done like Zimbabwe did?

Both countries have, according to you, democratic "systems"

Does Russia has religious fanatism? No.

What? Does zimbabwe?

Does Russia has rogue political ideology? No.

yes.

Does Russia have free elections? Yes.

Ok, Mr Russia, then tell me - why does the WHOLE WORLD from china over japan to australia, africa, europe and america agree that the election wasnt free and wasnt fair? Interesting.

It is a democracy.

Sorry, but no.

They all ignored the facts, that I have provided above. As I already said, it doesn't matter, what did motivate them to lie in reports.

You really think that you are right while those many thousand people NGOs are coincidently ALL wrong? That's quite arrogant. Also interesting that EVERYONE respects those reports - you are the only one who thinks they are wrong :hmmm:

how come?

[dogukan]

this bring the question....IS America a democracy? Yes on paper....but just two parties?
If that is democracy Europe has the uberduber democracies.

Russia is a democracy if we think that way but it's not an advanced one. I doN't know if you know about other cultures but the term democracy is not settled in all over the world.
Do not forget what Europe had to go through to get democracy, ,t's a looooong process(Magna Carta...french revolution...world wars...etc)
Russia is a democracy but it still has a logn way to go as certain people hold too much power.
Thats not so different in USA though IMHO

[Astaroth]

this bring the question....IS America a democracy? Yes on paper....but just two parties?
If that is democracy Europe has the uberduber democracies.

Russia is a democracy if we think that way but it's not an advanced one. I doN't know if you know about other cultures but the term democracy is not settled in all over the world.
Do not forget what Europe had to go through to get democracy, ,t's a looooong process(Magna Carta...french revolution...world wars...etc)
Russia is a democracy but it still has a logn way to go as certain people hold too much power.
Thats not so different in USA though IMHO

In America, Freedom of the Press exists. In America, the main 3 channels are not govt owned propaganda machines. In America, no party gains 70% of the votes. In America, anti govt journalists dont get murdered.

I agree, 2 parties is not much - but putting the USA in the same boat as Russia regarding democracy is ridiculous.

[dogukan]

In America, Freedom of the Press exists. In America, the main 3 channels are not govt owned propaganda machines. In America, no party gains 70% of the votes. In America, anti govt journalists dont get murdered.

I agree, 2 parties is not much - but putting the USA in the same boat as Russia regarding democracy is ridiculous.

as I said whatever they looked like their main policies never changed. People feel more free in America, it's libreal country and yes the media is not under too much control. But it has come to point where most Americans doesn't know about many things whilst the ones who know don't/can't do anything about it.
It's funny how many many intellectuals, people who make sense tell what is going wrong but nothing changes. A passive freedom that is.