Attacking and defending with spear wall units

[Drox]

Ok, so I am still pretty confused about how best to use units with spear wall. Obviously on defense vs cav its best to have spear wall on, however does it make any difference if the unit is set with Guard on or off? What about vs infantry is it better to leave spear wall on with guard on, or turn spear wall off all together?

My other question is concerning how to use them on offence. There are some pretty good infantry units that have the ability to use spear wall yet seem to be made for more than just defending. I assume that when you attack cav with them spear wall is left on, but what is the best way to attack other infantry with a unit that can use spear wall? Should I turn spear wall off or leave it on? I'm just trying to figure out the most efficient way of using these guys.

Oh and by the way I dont just mean pikemen but halaberder type guys as well.

[WarriorMusician]

Usually I leave the spear wall on while defending and guard mode only when I'm expecting a frontal cavalry charge. Halberdiers and Pikemen can both be used offensively if you're careful. I would turn off the spear wall while you advance so they don't march so slowly, and then re-engage the formation before contact. I also assign my pikes/halberds to attack specific targets in the opposing line to create the greatest effect. The one thing that will cause you problems using these units for offensively are armor piercing missile units. Also remember to protect your flanks and rear. Pikes and Halberds form a very strong battle line to the front, but react poorly if flanked. Good luck!

[Drox]

Usually I leave the spear wall on while defending and guard mode only when I'm expecting a frontal cavalry charge. Halberdiers and Pikemen can both be used offensively if you're careful. I would turn off the spear wall while you advance so they don't march so slowly, and then re-engage the formation before contact. I also assign my pikes/halberds to attack specific targets in the opposing line to create the greatest effect. The one thing that will cause you problems using these units for offensively are armor piercing missile units. Also remember to protect your flanks and rear. Pikes and Halberds form a very strong battle line to the front, but react poorly if flanked. Good luck!

Why re-engage before contact? I didn't thing it was possible for halberds to charge while spear wall was activated, so I always turned off spear wall to allow charge when attacking other infantry. Is it possible for them to charge while in spear wall formation? It seems like a bit of a waste not to use any charge bonus that a unit has.

[Callawyn]

Why re-engage before contact? I didn't thing it was possible for halberds to charge while spear wall was activated, so I always turned off spear wall to allow charge when attacking other infantry. Is it possible for them to charge while in spear wall formation? It seems like a bit of a waste not to use any charge bonus that a unit has.

Problem here is that they'll actually charge up, but be crowded to the front and switch to their secondary weapon. Most pike units have crap for defense and their secondary weapon is pretty useless also. Their effectiveness stems from the spearwall alone, since they're poking enemy infantry that can't strike back due to being held out of range. Much better to walk up to the enemy and engage with your unit in good order and the spearwall deployed than to charge up, switch to secondary weapon, and watch half your unit die before you can get the spearwall down and the enemy infantry pushed more than arms length away.

Pikes are really hardest to use when the enemy sits and waits for you to attack, like when you're assaulting walls. Best to be patient, take a few more missile hits when marching up, and attack in good order.

Guard mode: All this does is tell the unit not to pursue a unit that it is engaged with when it routs. I've messed around a fair bit with pikemen having guard mode on/off and it really makes no difference as far as keeping the spearwall down. There's usually no point having pikes pursue routers anyway, since they're slow, and the unit will reform its line in place when the enemy it is engaged with routs, so I usually put guard mode on. If your pike routs the unit in front of it, just tell it to attack another enemy unit that is still fighting.

[Hrothgar Óhreinsaður]

Why re-engage before contact? I didn't thing it was possible for halberds to charge while spear wall was activated, so I always turned off spear wall to allow charge when attacking other infantry. Is it possible for them to charge while in spear wall formation? It seems like a bit of a waste not to use any charge bonus that a unit has.

I haven't messed with pikes much in M2TW, but I was invincible in RTW with phalanxes, which are basically the same thing; I can't think the battle generator is much different from that of RTW. The method I used to attack, and decimate, enemy units was this:

Turn spearwall/phalanx mode off; march toward enemy; when close enough, charge; a few yards before your men hit the enemy's, turn spearwall/phalanx mode on, and you will watch them lower their spears, skewering a massive number of the enemy infantry. Give it a try and tell me how it works for you. Like I said, in RTW, this method caused my forces to become invincible.

[WarriorMusician]

The main reason I reengage the formation is to minimize casualties. The formation seems to hold the opposing troops more effectively. When I've tried a couple of times to attack without the formation on it seemed like I lost more men and didn't really gain that much from the charge bonus. I think that the main advantage of pikemen and halberdiers is their ability to strike their enemy from a distance. That said, I haven't experimented a lot with pike and halberd charges because of how slowly they move. Most of the time I'm able to lure them into my defensive position with cavalry. Just remember that pikes and halberds will be very hard pressed if they aren't adequately supported.

[Drox]

So I was playing my Tuton campaign as the Danes last night and because I finally took the lead in population/land/ and income basically every faction turned on me allowing me to mess around with my SwordStaff militia. Something I found is that when you have spearwall on and guard on they will do a pretty good job of holding the enemy back while not taking many casualties. On the other hand if you turn guard off while they are still engaged with a enemy unit they will stay in formation and slowly more forward pushing the enemy back and attacking, they take a few more causalities this way but inflict many more upon the enemy assuming the enemy isn’t some beefy heavy inf unit.
In the event that it is a heavy infantry unit attacking I found that first off, leaving guard mode on is suicide. Also, by leaving spear wall on it will hold for a little bit, but eventually the enemy infantry will break into the formation and slaughter the pole unit, so instead by turning spear wall off and allowing the individual soldiers defend themselves rather than stay in formation the number of casualties inflicted upon you wont be as bad, it takes the enemy much more effort to get past them, and you may even inflict a few more casualties on the enemy as well.
As far as using them for attacking, although they may not be as good as other Heavy infantry, some factions have really good pole arm type units (the Danes have the Obudshaer which have a charge rating of 6) and if you do attack with them its pretty cool to turn spear wall off and watch them charge shaking the massive pole axe above their head before slamming it down right on the heads of you enemy. At that point I still have not figured out whether its better to just keep them fighting with spear wall off or turn it on and hope they can form up quickly.

[WarriorMusician]

Sounds interesting. It's fun to just experiment sometimes. I just had a thought that my experience with polearm units comes mainly from stainless steel, so that could possibly make some things different. At least they are more effective in Kingdoms than in Vanilla. Good luck to you in your conquests!

[Silent Assassin]

I used them to defend they are stronger then when attacking

[Drox]

After playing a bit more last night I am once again unable to decide whether to have guard on or off while defending against infantry after watching some polish nobels absolutly roflstomp my swordstaff militia on a level I have never seen before.

[NobleNick]

In general, spears are good against cav and not so good against swords. Normally you would want to protect your spears from swords, almost as much as you want to protect cav from spears and archers from cav.

In the rock-paper-scissors scheme of things, I use:

swords against spears and archers
spears against cav and archers
cav against archers and routers
cav against swords (charges only, no prolonged melee)
cav against spears (into their backs or badly broken formations, only, and no prolonged melee).
archers against swords/spears, but only from protected positions.

So, this has been my long-winded way of saying: Buy spears only as an anti-cav tool, unless you cannot, for some reason, get your hands on enough good swords.

[Silent Assassin]

I personnelly love taking on the mongols, protecting a settlement againt 4 or 5 of their armies with either England or the Turks, and thoses only for their Elite Archers. Put stakes in front of the gate and in roads going to the center of your settlement by the time they arrive at your center there is atleast 2 of their armies dead and routing

[Basil the Great]

I personnelly love taking on the mongols, protecting a settlement againt 4 or 5 of their armies with either England or the Turks, and thoses only for their Elite Archers. Put stakes in front of the gate and in roads going to the center of your settlement by the time they arrive at your center there is atleast 2 of their armies dead and routing

I will have to try that I didn't yet as I'm playinfg Kingdom now, but I will definatly try

[Drox]

Last night I did some more testing using Obudshaer units verse all kinds of infantry and cav while trying different combinations of guard on and off, spear wall on/off, charging without spear wall then turning it on during the battle, ect. One thing I found for certain is that having guard on verse infantry or Cavalry, believe it or not, will actually cause quite a bit more losses on your side compaired to just having them stand there with only spear wall on. Obviously verse cav its best to have them not move, so I didn't mess around with that too much.
On the other hand verse infantry I found its best to keep spear wall on at all times (at least if your troops are well disciplined). Even if your pike/haleberd unit has a good charge raiting you lose too many soliders from the fact that they are not already in spear wall formation after the charge. In terms of reciving a charge from enemy infantry I found it best to once again just let them stand there and brace and then once the enemy makes contact right click them to cause the spear wall to start pushing forward. However, if you find yourself in a situation where you need to attack charging infantry its best to attack in spear wall formation, the losses taken by not having the pikes bracing for the infantry charge is actually quite minimal.

I guess my biggest discovery (although I'm sure most people knew this and I'm just slow) was that having guard on seems to do nothing but prolong the battle and in the end cause you to take more losses in pretty much every situation.

[Grimmy]

The only time I use guard is when I don't want my line broken by my guys chasing their routers before enough of the bad guys are broken that I don't have to worry about getting spread all over the map.

[Drox]

The only time I use guard is when I don't want my line broken by my guys chasing their routers before enough of the bad guys are broken that I don't have to worry about getting spread all over the map.

That is probably my biggest peeve with the game. I wish there was a way to have your units go back to their starting positions automatically when the enemy starts routing without needing guard mode on.

[Grimmy]

That is probably my biggest peeve with the game. I wish there was a way to have your units go back to their starting positions automatically when the enemy starts routing without needing guard mode on.

Have no fear! You'll eventually find much better pet peeves. Mine happens to be the way units refuse to engage in an attack except for a few motivated individuals in the front rank. The rest? Malingering poltroons!

[Drox]

Have no fear! You'll eventually find much better pet peeves. Mine happens to be the way units refuse to engage in an attack except for a few motivated individuals in the front rank. The rest? Malingering poltroons!

True, I hate when that happens. The first rank charges and the rest of the unit stands there just cheering for them or something."Yea we are right behind you, you got this!!!"

[OdinX]

True, I hate when that happens. The first rank charges and the rest of the unit stands there just cheering for them or something."Yea we are right behind you, you got this!!!"

This is so true, but it's hilarious in the context that you put in, tho it almost seems like that's what they're doing. And there's always that one guy who just holds everyone back, a glitch maybe, but when some units rout he's stuck on the wall and your troops really can't maneuver thanks to him. Leaving your squad to get massacred, tho I love it when it happens to the enemy.

[Grimmy]

That is probably my biggest peeve with the game. I wish there was a way to have your units go back to their starting positions automatically when the enemy starts routing without needing guard mode on.

If your units are still grouped in a formation, but your units get a bit scattered or out of position, just give either ',' or'.' a quick tap and that will force your units to reposition themselves within their formation.

If you give it more than a quick tap, you'll change the facing of the entire formation, so go light on it.