Christianity Debate

[Keeper of the Keys]

If you have any questions or wish to debate about my faith (Christianity) and why I don't belive in evolution then lets begin.

Come on people are always putting down christianity
so why are you not willing to debate it?

[basics]

SpartansAvenged,

Perhaps it is because them on the outside don't have much to debate about. How can they?

[Copperknickers II]

Come on people are always putting down christianity
so why are you not willing to debate it?

Spartans, read this, then come back and tell me why you think we are not willing to debate about it.

[Keeper of the Keys]

Im not looking to bible bash anyone I will respect your beliefs whatever they are I just want to understand why people believe in evolution and what they find wrong with creationism.

[Copperknickers II]

Im not looking to bible bash anyone I will respect your beliefs whatever they are I just want to understand why people believe in evolution and what they find wrong with creationism.

Did you read it?

[Vladimir Lenin]

Im not looking to bible bash anyone I will respect your beliefs whatever they are I just want to understand why people believe in evolution and what they find wrong with creationism.

Greetings,

Why can God not have created the entire universe through evolution?

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-god.html

[Dayman]

I just want to understand why people believe in evolution and what they find wrong with creationism.

One is a scientific Theory based and grounded in facts, tried and true.

The other is a passage written by primitive Jews as an explanation of the origins of the world by people who had absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about anything more than their own survival.

This is the problem of modern day Christian Theology, we blame bad things that happen to us on God, the problem arises that a benevolent god does not let your little girl get murdered and raped.

Thus it was somehow part of a "greater scheme" of the Lord.

No. God did not cause your daughter to get Murdered and Raped. It was directly caused by the Murderer and Rapist, and indirectly you not locking your door, having a security system etc.....

God gave us Free Will, but it seems a lot of us wish we didn't have it.

At least you're consistent, God cannot be both omnibenevolent and omnipotent.

[Rich86]

Sorry but way to go on the sweeping generalisations?

If you've read these forums (as I assume you have) at all you'll see people are quite prepared to debate almost anything you can think of.

However the problem is that we as atheists/agnostics desire evidence and proof - two things you can't provide. You on the other hand talk of 'faith' (lack of evidence) as though it is proof - in effect we are two different wave-lengths and so the debates tend to end up being unresolved as one side gets bored of nobody getting anywhere.

If you wish to discuss evolution I suggest you pop over to the science area (forgotten it's name now) - there's a thread there on it and the people contributing will know more about evolution I would suspect.

[Keeper of the Keys]

Alright just interested

[Каие]

47% of Americans completely don't believe in evolution...it's hard to see how they're the most advanced nation on earth...but the UK?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7613403.stm

[basics]

Rome kb8,

You know the land of Gt Britain used to be Christian and as such was blessed. Our misfortune was that we allowed other religions to have equal status and since then our decline has been drastic. Just as has happened to other nations so now is happening to us.

As for the BBC, one should have no difficulty in realising that this organisation is full of lefties, homosexuals and multiculturists, therefore it has no ambition to promote creationism, indeed it prefers not to promote the word of God at all. A recent report from within that organisation as well as one without confirmed this.

[Orko]

Rome kb8,

You know the land of Gt Britain used to be Christian and as such was blessed. Our misfortune was that we allowed other religions to have equal status and since then our decline has been drastic. Just as has happened to other nations so now is happening to us.

so you suggest that any religion that is not christian in the UK should be outlawd?

[basics]

" so you suggest that any religion that is not christian in the UK should be outlawd?"

orko,

Not quite as you would put it. But if we take the Scriptures as a whole wherein them that belong to God are called out of whatever they were once in, the Hebrews being an example, then that calling is to separate what is Holy from what is not.

But since born again Christians have no claim to this world there would be no point in outlawing anything simply because in the end times all the world will be as one, except of course them who are still alive and called. But the point I made was that Britain was once more or less exclusively Christian and blessed because of that. Not now.

[Copperknickers II]

Basics, the world is not blessed, nor was it ever blessed. And to believe that religion would remotely help Britain right now is wrong, we merely need to learn to accept each other and create a new way of life, we are in a transition stage right now, that is all. But to bring the thread back to its original purpose, i am in a mood for expressing myself.

Let me tell you guys a little story about Christianity and its place in the world.

Once apon a time, there was a little Jewish woman called Mary. She had got pregnant from her husband Joseph, but she was not married to him. As the days progressed, she found she could not hide it any more, so told everyone she had had a vision of an angel who told here that she would bear the son of God, a messiah, who would save all the Jews. So, he was born and named Jesus, and Joseph later married mary and fathered this son of God.

So, he grew up, and led a group of fishermen around the place and told people tall tales about lambs and shepherds and seeds and heaven and hell, and they believed him, and followed him. Eventually, the Romans executed him, and he became a martyr to the Jewish cause, and his followers built buildings in honour of him and wrote down a biography of his life.

After a few years, the Jews (or Christians, as they now called themselves) spread out of Israel, and told everyone else about Jesus, and before long everyone was amazed at his miracles, how he had fed 50, no sorry, 500, 1000...

one day, a Christian preacher told a Roman emperor about a magical prophet of everlasting life, who had once fed five thousand people with just one fish and two loaves of bread, and who had died and come back to life. The emperor was amazed, and he took up this 'God' as his God, and abandoned his old ways. The Romans, being Romans, forced everyone else to follow this religion too, and soon, all of Europe was Christian.

But then the Romans fell, and soon after the empire became Christian, hoards of Pagan barbarians beset the empire from all sides, and splintered this. For a long time after this, Europe was beset by plagues, fires and wars, werewolves and demons.

Then, a thousand years later, a small island called 'Britain' built ships and sailed over seas, and conquered foreign people and traded with them, until they ruled a vast expanse of land. Along with other countries, they started a period of time that would change the world forever, banishing the old beliefs and pioneering electricity, television, trains, cars and new scientific discoveries.

Funnily enough, it is right in the middle of this that our hero comes into the story, a zoologist by the name of Charles. He found out that animals were not single specimins created by a big man with a beard, but the product of a long and ever changing process that he called 'evolution'. Because of this, a lot of people started abandoning their religious beliefs and putting their trust in biology and physics, rather than God.

Now over the next hundred years, there were admittedly two huge world wars and two huge disease pandemics and James Blunt but there was also the formation of the U.N, new medicines and Queen.

Now our story draws to its close, as we enter 2008. Now, a lot of people have embraced science, but there are still those that cling to the bad old days, when we lived in the shadow of our mighty creator, ever ready to punish us for our sins and condemn us to hell, and we treated other religions and races like dirt, but now we see: how we are here on this planet is debatable, but it is our duty to serve our fellow human beings, we live in a time where we can look at the world in a new light, a positive light, but still we see suffering. That is not going to change any time soon, but we have our values as a society, and they demand many things but, above all, they demand respect. And that means that there is no use looking into the past. We must learn to value each other, and listen to them, and help them, not dwell on our differences.

The End. Or is it just the begginning?

[Copperknickers II]

Rome kb8,

You know the land of Gt Britain used to be Christian and as such was blessed. Our misfortune was that we allowed other religions to have equal status and since then our decline has been drastic. Just as has happened to other nations so now is happening to us.

As for the BBC, one should have no difficulty in realising that this organisation is full of lefties, homosexuals and multiculturists, therefore it has no ambition to promote creationism, indeed it prefers not to promote the word of God at all. A recent report from within that organisation as well as one without confirmed this.

The BBC does indeed have left wingers (shock horror, left wingers in the BBC, whcih is controlled by Labour, a left wing political party), homosexuals, heterosexuals, maybe the odd bisexual and transexual, multiculturalists, Muslims, Christians...

I could go on listing the people for ages, but i really don't get your point, unless you think those are bad things, in which case you need do a little self-judging rather than judgeing other people.

[Garbarsardar]

You know the land of Gt Britain used to be Christian and as such was blessed. Our misfortune was that we allowed other religions to have equal status and since then our decline has been drastic. Just as has happened to other nations so now is happening to us.

And how exactly this blessing has been manifested? Ah, yes let me see:

The Great Fire of London (1665-1666): 100000 dead
The Great Plague of London (1666): 13500 houses (and 87 Churches, mind you)

Or maybe the Victoria Hall Disaster (1883) when the almighty "blessed" 183 children with death by asphyxiation?

While in the multiculturalism times, what did the almighty do? Hillsborough? So Liverpool can be admonished for the Beatles?

As for the BBC, one should have no difficulty in realising that this organisation is full of lefties, homosexuals and multiculturists, therefore it has no ambition to promote creationism, indeed it prefers not to promote the word of God at all. A recent report from within that organisation as well as one without confirmed this.

I am worried and perturbed that you treat the Word of God like Windows Vista: a troubled product in need of promotion. But that's just me.

[basics]

Garbarsardar,

Are you trying to tell me that Britain was not blessed, that God did not raise us up into the greatest Empire the world has ever seen? And just like the Romans before us when the Gospel became diluted in their system, they diminished, just as we are doing today.

But of course if you are Godless how can you ever see the overall picture that is consistent with the Scriptures. If you think these things were bad, and, they were, a lot worse is sure to come our way again according to the Scriptures.

As regarding Hillsborough, I don't see where the Beatles come into it. If memory serves me correct that was a case of selfish fans determined to get into somewhere there was not enough room, drink playing it's fair share.

Your figures for the fire and plague seem a little muddled as in the former 13,500 houses, 89 churches and not a few Council Halls were destroyed but no mention of deaths. In the latter it is said that 100,000 were killed in or around London. That men die is a fact from the fall of man. How they die is inconsequential.

[Dayman]

Garbarsardar,

Are you trying to tell me that Britain was not blessed, that God did not raise us up into the greatest Empire the world has ever seen? And just like the Romans before us when the Gospel became diluted in their system, they diminished, just as we are doing today.

But of course if you are Godless how can you ever see the overall picture that is consistent with the Scriptures. If you think these things were bad, and, they were, a lot worse is sure to come our way again according to the Scriptures.

As regarding Hillsborough, I don't see where the Beatles come into it. If memory serves me correct that was a case of selfish fans determined to get into somewhere there was not enough room, drink playing it's fair share.

Your figures for the fire and plague seem a little muddled as in the former 13,500 houses, 89 churches and not a few Council Halls were destroyed but no mention of deaths. In the latter it is said that 100,000 were killed in or around London. That men die is a fact from the fall of man. How they die is inconsequential.

This is by far the most ridiculous post you've ever made.

[Copperknickers II]

Garbarsardar,

Are you trying to tell me that Britain was not blessed, that God did not raise us up into the greatest Empire the world has ever seen? And just like the Romans before us when the Gospel became diluted in their system, they diminished, just as we are doing today.

But of course if you are Godless how can you ever see the overall picture that is consistent with the Scriptures. If you think these things were bad, and, they were, a lot worse is sure to come our way again according to the Scriptures.

As regarding Hillsborough, I don't see where the Beatles come into it. If memory serves me correct that was a case of selfish fans determined to get into somewhere there was not enough room, drink playing it's fair share.

Your figures for the fire and plague seem a little muddled as in the former 13,500 houses, 89 churches and not a few Council Halls were destroyed but no mention of deaths. In the latter it is said that 100,000 were killed in or around London. That men die is a fact from the fall of man. How they die is inconsequential.

Please, if you are going to cite something then you must learn not to be biased. It is all very well citing the British Empire, but what about Rome, the Mongols, the Mughals? None were Christian when they were building their empires, yet they achieved greater things than Britain. In fact the first two converted to Christianity and then collapsed shortly afterwards, even when they had held steadfast for 600 and 100 years respectively.

And you may remember a little thing called the crusades? Where in your scruptures does it say

"Those who doth destroy the heathens and blacken the land with the blood of their foes shall rule three quarters of the worlds land surface"

?

[Pontifex Maximus]

Garbarsardar,

Are you trying to tell me that Britain was not blessed, that God did not raise us up into the greatest Empire the world has ever seen? And just like the Romans before us when the Gospel became diluted in their system, they diminished, just as we are doing today.

I can assure you that the rise and fall of Empires is not determined by the vigor in which it's people accept the gospels.

But of course if you are Godless how can you ever see the overall picture that is consistent with the Scriptures.

The problem is Christians can't see past it.

If you think these things were bad, and, they were, a lot worse is sure to come our way again according to the Scriptures.

Somehow, I'm not scared.