No use for German special forces - so why ask for more soldiers?

[Ketzerfreund]

Talk of how the USA asked for more engagements of Germany in Afghanistan had been around in the Mudpit long before.
I wonder, however, what use more German soldiers would be in Afghanistan, if even elite troops that are already there aren't even used. This is actually already a quite old matter, but I've just stumbled upon this article while having this forum in a tab besides that and would like to give this a whirl in the Mudpit now:

Source: "Welt Online" (German)
Translation:

September 18th, 2008, 07:25 o'clock
Bundeswehr elite troops underchallenged

They are trained for fighting the Taliban: The elite troop Kommando Spezialkräfte of the Bundeswehr. But according to reports their use in Afghanistan is mainly to sit on top of a mountain for ten days and to observe. Since 2002 the KSK had no meaningful assignments anymore.


The KSK at work - this picture, however, wasn't shot in Afghanistan, but at the barracks of Calw.

The elite troop Kommando Spezialkräfte (KSK) of the Bundeswehr feels widely underchallenged in their mission in Afghanistan, the "Süddeutsche Zeitung" reported. With this conclusion the defense commission officially wanted to end their investigations this forenoon in Berlin.

After the terror attacks of September 11th, 2001, the former red-green government under chancellor Gerhard Schröder promised the USA unlimited solidarity. In accordance with the Bundestag the Bundeswehr assigned up to 100 KSK-soldiers to Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF), which were combat-ready in the US-base Kandahar in the south of Afghanistan since the beginning of 2002.

According to the conclusions of the commission, in the initial stage the KSK-soldiers were part of exactly three so-called seizure missions against presumed stores and cave systems of Taliban and Al-Qaeda fighters. After that they were mainly assigned to reconnaissance operations in Afghan-Pakistani borderland and later also in the region around Kabul.

At the latest from March 2002 "there were actually no meaningful assignments anymore", the statement of a KSK-officer before the commission, which held it's meeting behind closed doors, was cited.

The former KSK-commander, the in the meantime retired brigade general Reinhard Güntzel, had asserted: "For ten days the men sat in the snow on a mountaintop at an altitude of 3500 to 4000 metres and observed and gave notice of the surrounding area. That's something for which one doesn't need special forces."

Reason for the investigation in the KSK-mission were accusations of the former Guantanamo-detainee Murat Kurnaz from Bremen that he had been mistreated by KSK-soldiers. These accusations were denied by all soldiers during prolongued interrogations.

Have I missed anything? If the USA has no real use for those soldiers that are already there, for what do they need more? :hmmm:


A nice quote from my favourite German satirist (cabaret artist) about this:

We have sent 100 KSK-soldiers - our best men - to Afghanistan by request of the Americans. There they practically got half-mouldy on an airbase, had no assignment. They were only integrated when the Americans had found out that we had canned beer while the Americans didn't. "Dry area" - the Americans were forbidden any alcohol. Now, by coincidence, the commander of our KSK-units was a heavy alcoholic with always a palette of canned beer nearby. And only through that we got any information. Our men had no socks but canned beer, the Americans had socks en masse but no canned beer. Only by that we were integrated. In the long run, that's a bit unconvincing.

-Der Ketzerfreund.

[magpie]

Politic,s. The more countries you have on your side the better. When you want to present to the worlds media your vision of how things should be, It helps to give out a long list of countries that are supporting you. No matter how small their actual contribution.

[Rapax]

Politic,s. The more countries you have on your side the better. When you want to present to the worlds media your vision of how things should be, It helps to give out a long list of countries that are supporting you. No matter how small their actual contribution.

Hmm? This article refers to the 100 special forces soldiers that were deployed to afghanistan. Germany has several thousand regular soldiers beyond that in Afghanistan, so what are you talking about?


Besides that, the article is old. I've read the very same things in Spiegel magazine last year already and the events it describes are older still.
I know that KSK units are currently operating in the North, participating in missions to capture Taliban leaders.

[Каие]

There is soon to be a big change in strategy in Afghanistan, they could very much be put to use. The USA is looking to leave the anti-partisan activity in internal Afghanistan solely for NATO/ISAF while the USA engages in an independent offensive along the Pakistani border.

[Pious Agnost]

Not using Germans? What, they never heard of WWI and WWII

[nemgod]

but during them Germany never had a "No use of armed forces outside own borders and only in defense of Germany" clause in their constitution.

[Ketzerfreund]

Actually, it isn't in our constitution today, either. The constitution just says that Germany must never start a war.
But that's not even relevant - the US asked for these units, and they got them, and they are still sitting around doing nothing (except swapping beer for socks with the Americans ).

Yet, Gates wrote that letter with a pissed-off tone in his "voice". Unjustified!


-Der Ketzerfreund.

[Ketzerfreund]

I know that the matter's quite old already. But it still seems to be a matter of interest - look at the date of this article.
Actually it's about that finally the defense commission realised that now, too.

So, they're helping out catching Taliban leaders? Probably by still sitting on a mountaintop looking out for them, eh?

-Der Ketzerfreund.

[Rapax]

I know that the matter's quite old already. But it still seems to be a matter of interest - look at the date of this article.

Yes that's the thing, the article doesn't say anything new, hence I'm wondering why they released it now. It's been said before, there's no new information and it simply claims that the KSK has not done anything since 2002. The KSK has been on several deployments to Afghanistan since 2002, they haven't been there the entire time and what I read currently is that they're under german command in RC North, trying to capture Taliban leaders like I said, by way of "high risk" arrests.

[shadyrome]

Germans can't fight like us brit do, They only good at cooking and chanting.

hehe only joking

[Samuel Adams]

The United States... well, I'd not take them too seriously. I mean, we want to start more wars than we can handle, and why waste US boys and girls to do that, when we can guilt Europeans into helping us out?!

The fact of the matter is, we don't need the SF units ATM en masse, we need ground troops. Recruitment is at an all time low, and we're looking into expanding the "Global War on Terror" by invading yet another nation.

If I was Germany, I would proclaim that the US has overstepped it's GWoT intent and as such Germany will not send any more cannon or bomb fodder for US imperialism.

[magpie]

I would hate to be a German soldier, He or she is bound down with so many PC rules of engagement, that they would most likely be dead before they thought through them all and tried to defend themselves.

[Rapax]

I would hate to be a German soldier, He or she is bound down with so many PC rules of engagement, that they would most likely be dead before they thought through them all and tried to defend themselves.

Uh yeah, I guess that's why german soldiers accidentally killed 3 civilians at a checkpoint not too long ago.

[magpie]

Uh yeah, I guess that's why german soldiers accidentally killed 3 civilians at a checkpoint not too long ago.

maybe they have improved the rule book and I am behind the times.

[Rapax]

Nope, it's just not as dramatic as you make it out to be.