WARSAW vrs NATO

[Applesmack]

Who would win in a hypothetical conflict between WARSAW and NATO.The war is being fought in the late 1970s, when both the USSR and NATO were at their prime. At least I think they were at their prime... Who do you think would win?

PS: no strategic nukes are allowed for obvious reasons..

[Stuntdawg5]

Who would win in a hypothetical conflict between WARSAW and NATO. India and China would also most likely fight alongside the USSR so we can include them as Russia's allies. The war is being fought in the late 1970s, when both the USSR and NATO were at their prime. At least I think they were at their prime... Who do you think would win?

PS: no nukes are allowed!

Ah, hard to figure there. 1970s with no nukes. Can't really say. Both countries would be giants, even without nukes the world would be completely ravaged.

Though I would probably put my money on the Allies. All the Post WW2 ravaged countries (GB, France, etc.) were fully repaired and were once again powerful (Although not like before). With Japan and Europe as a jump spot I think the US with Europe could win, but it would still be close. With the USSR's huge manpower and then huge industrial might, I doubt the US and its allies could have ever completely occupied or even gotten close to occupying Russia.

[Entropy Judge]

IIRC, the accepted view is that in a conventional war, the USSR could steamroll and occupy most, if not all, of Europe. They might be blockaded at the Alps or the Iberian bottleneck, but Central Europe would have fallen. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

Why is India allying with the USSR, though? I thought it was anti-communist?

[Applesmack]

IIRC, the accepted view is that in a conventional war, the USSR could steamroll and occupy most, if not all, of Europe. They might be blockaded at the Alps or the Iberian bottleneck, but Central Europe would have fallen. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

Why is India allying with the USSR, though? I thought it was anti-communist?

This map shows that its a Soviet ally.

[Freddie]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This map shows that its a Soviet ally.

Why hasn't the UK got a red X on it? The UK had communist guerrillas to deal with as well it's just that we just called them trade unionists instead of communist guerrillas.

[Sharrow]

If it is 1970's era NATO then my money is on the WP.

If it 1985 plus then my money is on NATO.

By the mid-80's am not sure the Soviets could have counted on that much help from their WP clients - and any help would be half hearted at best.

Am also sceptical about the inevitability of nuke use - even tactical. Even Communists aren't that stupid.

By the mid-80's I would question the WP's ability to supply its forces without an extremely long build up period. Also the Soviet supply mentality of 'one big facility' would have made their supply chain horribly vulnerable.

Having said all of that am sure I remember reading that the Soviets planned to destory around 60 plus power stations to cripple Western Europes economy.

Am glad these are just hypothetical discussions anyway and that it never came to pass.

[Entropy Judge]

Where'd you get it from?

[Applesmack]

Where'd you get it from?

Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

[fieldmarshal]

India is a non aligned nation, it is part of the non aligned movement. India will not join a war with USSR or Nato.

[Applesmack]

India is a non aligned nation, it is part of the non aligned movement. India will not join a war with USSR or Nato.

Rofl! That states Fidel Castro was unaligned as well...Who was hosting the Soviet Nukes in Cuba again?

[Caelius]

He's right.

Despite the party line that they were in the "Non-Aligned Movement" India was still very much influenced by the USSR more so than the West. Its one of the main reasons why so much of their military is made up of Soviet era and more modern Russian equipment.

As a result the situation led to both the US (and China following the Soviet-Sino Schism in the 1970s) to court the leaders in Pakistan in order to serve as a proper counterweight to check Soviet influence.

[Enemy of the State]

Why would China fight with Russia? They were on the verge of nuclear war before.

[Knight of Judgment]

Hm the West had best technology but the East millions of man power . Perhaps could USSR ATTACK USA from Alaska and the other commies attack Europe . However now the world could be United Socialist Earth Republics .

[Applesmack]

Why would China fight with Russia? They were on the verge of nuclear war before.

They are both communist. Despite the Sino-Soviet Split, they both wanted to influence communism in countries instead of democracy. China also despised US for supporting Taiwan and it would be the first area invaded by China. Japan following soon after. Although there definately was alot of competion for power between the USSR and China, the contempt for each others communist system was not even remotely close to the contempt for capatalism. The Chinese would never allow the USSR to be taken by the US, but also wouldn't allow the US be taken by the Soviet Union. It would be a strange alliance, but it would still stand up to a certain point.

[Dromikaites]

In the '70s China and the Soviet Union were at each other's throats. China and India were also on the verge of war. So It would be safer to assume China and India would be neutral, carefully watching each other.

The war would be fought mainly in Germany.

[SonOfOdin]

The war would be fought mainly in Germany.

Depends. If the U.S.S.R make a big push for land, the front may be in Eastern France/West Germany, if NATO make a big push for land, the front could be East Germany/Poland. Depends on who makes a head start really.

Btw, I used "West" and "East" Germany in a Geographical sense, not entirely in a former political border sense.

[Oklop]

I do not know who will win but European nations are sure to loose as the worst fighting will be on European soil. Without nukes USA is safe, USSR will be bombed conventionally for a while but then again they were crazy about air defense so it may not have much impact. (The air battles would be cool to watch, hundreds of fighters mixing it up over huge territory)

And good luck to non aligned nations in Europe.

[FirstManOnTheMoon]

The question is, how many would lose? A war between two behemoths is impossible to win, hasn't anyone read 1984

[Claudius Gothicus]

The question is, how many would lose? A war between two behemoths is impossible to win, hasn't anyone read 1984

In 1984 the war never ended because the main powers didn't want it to end, in a NATO-Warsaw Pact war the loser would be the first that run out of resources(men, money, fuel etc)

[Pious Agnost]

The question is, how many would lose? A war between two behemoths is impossible to win, hasn't anyone read 1984

Great book, but that's between THREE 'Behemoths', even harder . The end was kind of a killjoy though.

Turkish special forces are better then spetznaz and delta men.

Three words, NOT A CHANCE If this is Nationalism hour, N.Z.S.A.S pwns all

i think it would end with a very long stand still, Communism holding Africa, Asia and Europe, and Democracy holding the Americas, British Isles and the sattelite islands