Should evolution be taught in schools?

[Hand of Nergal]

From what I understand of the evolution theory, it poses certain facts and makes some extractions based on them. Firstly, traits are inherited, this was proposed long before we knew about genes, and it is proved that certain traits are in fact inherited from parents through sexual reproduction. Now, given that traits are inherited, if a string of organisms inherit a trait or quality that benefits them, like having opposable thumbs lets say, then that string of organisms have a better chance of reproducing and passing along their inherited traits. That, in a nutshell, is the theory of evolution. Nowhere in that did anyone propose that humans spontaneously jumped out of trees and started walking on two feet. Evolution is a very long process taking millions of years. Mutation occurs randomly, when billions of pairs of DNA get split a certain sequence might get skipped, or small cosmic radiation on the scale of a millionth of an inch can scramble a nucleus. The vast majority of mutations are random, and dont necessarily benefit anything, but all it takes is one to begin a new string of mutated animals. Its not like the X-men or anything like that.
Given thats its a logical and sound theory why does it get attacked so vehemently, especially by the bible-beaters? Is it that people hate to think humans are monkeys?( a false assumption, humans are not monkeys, we actually evolved from hominids closely related to modern apes). Is it mere coincidence that over ninety percent of the genes we have are in common with chimps? I think not. Let the hate mail come.

[Selifator]

Evolution is not accepted by religion since it says that evolution will work itself out. According to religion a greater existence created the humans, and did this in a smaller period of time than evolution says is possible.
Evolution thus does not allow for a greater being, or so it is said by religious people, since it says that there isn't a need for one.
If your religion is based on the need of a greater existence it is natural that you do not believe it.

[Portuguese Rebel]

The theory of evolution must be taught until there is a better explanation for the facts. This is how science works. It is, up until now, the most inclusive and proven biological paradigm we have.

If tomorrow someone proves it wrong then it should be discarded. Until now that hasn't happened.

What would be the alternative? Resort to religion?

This part of the scientific knowlage is constantly attacked by religious fundies because it somehow threatens certain religious beliefs. It has, today, no opponent in the scientific community.

[Valentin the II]

Yes. Any other questions?

[Deep_Red]

*stops grinning when he realizes no fundies have posted yet*
*sits down, starts to drink some tea*

Begun, the waiting has...

[Bernem]

should? no!
must? yes!

[MaximiIian]

should? no!
must? yes!

Agreed.
It is the very basis of genetics, biology, natural sciences, and many other fields of sciences, including the social sciences.
It is a necessity to teach Evolution.

Evolution is not accepted by religion

Erroneous assumption.

[dwringer]

I never understood why people with religious faith find evolution so troubling. It's not like Darwin went out and said where DNA came from or anything; he didn't even know about it. We still don't know where it came from originally, and even if we did there's no way we could assign any causality. Let's just say something about the sun's magnetic field interacting with that of the earth causes a certain chemical structure to emerge under just the right circumstances, and the first DNA came from something like this. Nanotechnology experiments today are starting to find out strange properties of matter, including molecules that can align themselves in a helix despite their inherent tendencies based on classical understanding of chemistry. Even if this were the case, you could easily say that these electromagnetic fields ARE the mind of god. People don't seem to understand that science doesn't even BEGIN to ask "why", it's more interested in "HOW". You can ALWAYS answer "why" with "because god made it that way", even if you are a hardcore scientist. In fact, there are many scientists who are also religious.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

I never understood why people with religious faith find evolution so troubling.

The vast majority of people with religious faith don't. The only religious people who have a problem with evolution are fundamentalists who interpret the Bible as being literally true. They are a minority of Christians (and Christianity is far from the only religion), though there are more of them in the US than most other western countries.

They are noisy and they are politically motivated though, which is why people get the idea that all Christians have a problem with evolution. They don't.

Evolution is only an issue for the minority who believe that the Bible needs to be read literally and can't accept that the story in Genesis is just that - a story. It's not a science textbook or a historical account of what actually happened.

[Hand of Nergal]

I do not believe (macro)evolution simply because its an obsurd scientific idea...

I think that your argument of a mutation turning a cat into a dog overnight is absurd, and so was the was you spelled the word obsurd...

[CtrlAltDe1337]

I do not believe (macro)evolution simply because its an absurd scientific idea...

I think that your argument of a mutation turning a cat into a dog overnight is absurd, and so was the was you spelled the word obsurd...

I did not say overnight. Please read my post. Sorry about the spelling.

BTW, I wrote that when I was tired and forgot the "not" in this sentence:

There are many, many more possibilities besides evolution, and I am not talking about purely religious ideas.

Sorry about that

If this is your understanding of evolution then I think not only should evolution be taught in schools but that someone should find the person who taught you evolution and fire him immediately. Or maybe he should just flunk you.

And you call me narrow-minded? Please man, do yourself a favor and 1) read my post, and 2) read some books on evolution.

Absolute garbage. There is no doubt about evolution in the scientific community. None. Zero. It is the basis of all biological science, all zoology, all genetics and all palaeontology. It is as much a "fact" as anything in science can be - just as gravity, electricity and relativity are.

This nonsense that there is some kind of doubt about evolution is peddled by fundamentalist preachers for purely religious and political reasons. Their campaigns of lies and propaganda have zero scientific credibility and - outside the US - have zero traction with anyone.

Just a few weeks ago in an Australian newpaper the weekend features magazine had an article on American Creationism that was basically saying "Can you believe these freaks actually exist in the Twenty-First Century?" American fundamentalist objections to the clear scientific fact of evolutionary biology makes the US a laughing stock in the rest of the world.

The sooner sensible, scientifically-literate, educated Americans stand up to the peddlers of this slack-jawed hillybilly nonsense the better. Creationism is as absurd as trying to argue the Earth is flat.

Hmm, thats nice.

"More than 500 scientists have signed a statement publicly expressing skepticism about the theory of Darwinian evolution.

The statement reads: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

The list of 514 signatories includes 154 biologists, 76 chemists and 63 physicists.

The list was published by the Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank that, among other things, promotes intelligent design and represents evolution as a "theory in crisis."

Intelligent design posits life is too complex to have been created by evolution and an intelligent designer must have been responsible. Most of its proponents are affiliated with the Discovery Institute.

David Berlinski, a signer of the statement and a mathematician and philosopher with the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture, said: "Darwin's theory of evolution is the great white elephant of contemporary thought. It is large, almost completely useless and the object of superstitious awe.""

http://www.physorg.com/news11005.html

Please do some research before making such sweeping generalizations. And cut out the logical fallacies plz, they don't help your claims at all. Evolution is a theory, not a scientific law. An interesting theory, but just that.

[ajm317]

"More than 500 scientists have signed a statement publicly expressing skepticism about the theory of Darwinian evolution.

Wow. Big deal. 500 scientists is nothing. There are 500 scientists at my university.

The common creationist tactic of trying to dispute scientific consensus on evolution by trotting out such lists is addressed here.

The claims of "500 scientists who dispute evolution" and whatnot are most humurously addressed by Project Steve a project which has gathered over 900 scientists all of whom agree with evolution.

And every single one of them named Steve.

There is no significant debate in the scientific community about the validity of evolution. There just isn't.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Please man, do yourself a favor and 1) read my post, and 2) read some books on evolution.

Please boy, I read your post and its absurd caricature that you present as what you think evolution is. Clearly it's you who needs to read some books on evolution. I strongly recommend this one.

"More than 500 scientists have signed a statement publicly expressing skepticism about the theory of Darwinian evolution.

The statement reads: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

The list of 514 signatories includes 154 biologists, 76 chemists and 63 physicists.

The list was published by the Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank that, among other things, promotes intelligent design and represents evolution as a "theory in crisis."

Intelligent design posits life is too complex to have been created by evolution and an intelligent designer must have been responsible. Most of its proponents are affiliated with the Discovery Institute.

David Berlinski, a signer of the statement and a mathematician and philosopher with the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture, said: "Darwin's theory of evolution is the great white elephant of contemporary thought. It is large, almost completely useless and the object of superstitious awe.""

http://www.physorg.com/news11005.html

Please do some research before making such sweeping generalizations. And cut out the logical fallacies plz, they don't help your claims at all.

I've been watching the political and evangelical movement that is Creationism for about 18 years sonny, so I think I've done plenty of research on their fake quotes, their lies, their false rhetoric, their twisting of science and all the rest of their holy rolling magical mystery tour of lying for God.

One of those tricks is false arguments from authority. ajm317 has already debunked this worthless list of "scientists" and highlighted the Project Steve parody of this pathetic tactic.

What hoary, creaking old Creationist tactic are you going to try next? Will you try that one about how evolution violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics perhaps? That's always a good one. Or how about some fake quotes from evolutionary biologists making out that they have doubts? Creationists have some handy-dandy lists of those fake quotes for you if you want them. Or you could try the lie about how Darwin "recanted" on his deathbed?

Or maybe you could ask yourself this: if we have all the objective scientists on the planet on one hand and some big-haired, shiny-suited fundamentalist preachers on the other - who is more likely to be credible on science? :hmmm:

Or this: if the scientists and others who accept evolution as a fact come from a variety of religious and non-religious background and the guys in shiny suits who reject it are all Biblical fundamentalists, isn't it rather more likely that the shiny-suited guys are having their perspective warped by their religious ideas? :hmmm:

Or this one: if the shiny suit guys are right, why do they keep having to resort to lies? :hmmm:

Evolution is a theory, not a scientific law. An interesting theory, but just that.

Evolution is a theory like gravity and electricity. It's too broad a topic to be encapsulated in a simple statement like a law. Again, you clearly don't have a grasp of the basics.

And the shiny-suited, sparkling toothed, big-haired preacher men want to keep it that way. Ignorance means more money and power for those creeps.

Do you like being kept dumb and manipulated?

[Justice and Mercy]

Evolution is just genetics taken to the grander scale.

To deny evolution is to deny genetics, and that's idiotic.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

From what I understand of the evolution theory, it poses certain facts and makes some extractions based on them. Firstly, traits are inherited, this was proposed long before we knew about genes, and it is proved that certain traits are in fact inherited from parents through sexual reproduction. Now, given that traits are inherited, if a string of organisms inherit a trait or quality that benefits them, like having opposable thumbs lets say, then that string of organisms have a better chance of reproducing and passing along their inherited traits. That, in a nutshell, is the theory of evolution. Nowhere in that did anyone propose that humans spontaneously jumped out of trees and started walking on two feet. Evolution is a very long process taking millions of years. Mutation occurs randomly, when billions of pairs of DNA get split a certain sequence might get skipped, or small cosmic radiation on the scale of a millionth of an inch can scramble a nucleus. The vast majority of mutations are random, and dont necessarily benefit anything, but all it takes is one to begin a new string of mutated animals. Its not like the X-men or anything like that.
Given thats its a logical and sound theory why does it get attacked so vehemently, especially by the bible-beaters? Is it that people hate to think humans are monkeys?( a false assumption, humans are not monkeys, we actually evolved from hominids closely related to modern apes). Is it mere coincidence that over ninety percent of the genes we have are in common with chimps? I think not. Let the hate mail come.

Well, that is a good summary of the argument for evolution in schools, but the counter-argument is this: You can get a wolf and give it billions of years and it won’t turn into a cat. You will probably get big wolves, hairy wolves, different colors, dogs or other kinds of canines probably, but you will never get a dog to turn into a cat. Mutations of this kind are extremely rare and usually kill animals instead of helping them survive better.

No one disputes there is variation within a canines, felines, cattle, etc; the question is whether a species can turn into another type of animal, even over an infinite time period.

Should evolution be taught in schools? Yes. Should ONLY evolution be taught in schools? No. There are many, many more possibilities besides evolution, and I am talking about purely religious ideas. Could God have used evolution to create the world? Sure. Could there be a non-religous solution to origins? I guess so. Evolution is not the final draw card on either side. I do not believe (macro)evolution simply because its an obsurd scientific idea.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Well, that is a good summary of the argument for evolution in schools, but the counter-argument is this: You can get a wolf and give it billions of years and it won’t turn into a cat. You will probably get big wolves, hairy wolves, different colors, dogs or other kinds of canines probably, but you will never get a dog to turn into a cat. Mutations of this kind are extremely rare and usually kill animals instead of helping them survive better.

If this is your understanding of evolution then I think not only should evolution be taught in schools but that someone should find the person who taught you evolution and fire him immediately. Or maybe he should just flunk you.

No one disputes there is variation within a canines, felines, cattle, etc; the question is whether a species can turn into another type of animal, even over an infinite time period.

And the answer, according to all the evidence and all the biologists, zoologists and palaeontologists on the planet is "Yes". You can educate youself on speciaction here.

Should evolution be taught in schools? Yes. Should ONLY evolution be taught in schools? No.

Only evolution should be taught in science classes. Religious ideas are not science. If religious ideas about gods creating things by magic are to be taught at all it should be in some kind of comparitive religion class, along with all the other creation myths.

There are many, many more possibilities besides evolution, and I am talking about purely religious ideas.

That's nice. They just aren't scientific though, so they have no place in science lessons. In a class on creation myths maybe.

I do not believe (macro)evolution simply because its an obsurd scientific idea.

So-called "macro-evolution" is a Creationist ploy used to get around the fact that evolution can be observed in micro-organisms and insects. So they try to pretend there is something called "micro-evolution" that exists and "macro-evolution" that is in doubt. This is pure garbage.

And given that your grasp of evolution is clearly pathetic, I think your opinion that it's "obsurd" doesn't count for much next to the opinion of every scientist on the planet. Put down your Bible and go educate yourself.

No, evolution shouldn't be taught at school. If something is not completely fact (and we can all agree evolution has MANY discrepencies), it should not be taught at school.

Absolute garbage. There is no doubt about evolution in the scientific community. None. Zero. It is the basis of all biological science, all zoology, all genetics and all palaeontology. It is as much a "fact" as anything in science can be - just as gravity, electricity and relativity are.

This nonsense that there is some kind of doubt about evolution is peddled by fundamentalist preachers for purely religious and political reasons. Their campaigns of lies and propaganda have zero scientific credibility and - outside the US - have zero traction with anyone.

Just a few weeks ago in an Australian newpaper the weekend features magazine had an article on American Creationism that was basically saying "Can you believe these freaks actually exist in the Twenty-First Century?" American fundamentalist objections to the clear scientific fact of evolutionary biology makes the US a laughing stock in the rest of the world.

The sooner sensible, scientifically-literate, educated Americans stand up to the peddlers of this slack-jawed hillybilly nonsense the better. Creationism is as absurd as trying to argue the Earth is flat.

[Spartan90]

It's evolutionists like you that think you know everything that makes me angry. I completely respect the theory of evolution, I just don't agree with it. I don't go out and bag the **** out of evolutionists, saying their thoughts are crazy just because they believe something different than I.

I have researched evolution, and I cannot comprehend how something something as beautiful and intricate as the human body, planet earth and the universe can happen by chance. That is my viewpoint. I researched both and even though I respect your thoughts (except when you say our beliefs are garbage) I personally believe Creation is the only way something as complicated as life can happen.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

It's evolutionists like you that think you know everything that makes me angry. I completely respect the theory of evolution, I just don't agree with it. I don't go out and bag the **** out of evolutionists, saying their thoughts are crazy just because they believe something different than I.

I don't actually care if your feelings are hurt sonny - what you believe is utterly ridiculous from a scientific point of view. And, considering the vast majority of Christians also have no problem with evolution and read Genesis for what it is - a text written by ancient people with an ancient understanding of the world - your fundamentalist interpretation of that book isn't exactly A1 theory in religious circles either.

Feel free to believe Bronze Age myths as literal truth if you want, but don't expect anyone else to take that kind of ludicrous crap seriously.

I have researched evolution, and I cannot comprehend how something something as beautiful and intricate as the human body, planet earth and the universe can happen by chance.

It didn't happen "by chance". And the fact you think evolution says it did shows you don't have even the most basic grasp of how evolution works. This would explain your inability to appreciate its power as an idea. And an "argument from incredulity" isn't exactly a powerful argument anyway. You need to educate yourself.

That is my viewpoint.

Your "viewpoint" is an ill-educated one and, as such, is totally worthless.

I researched both

Everything you've written about evolution shows you don't have the faintest idea about it. If this is the grasp you've come up with after "researching" even the basics of evolution it shows how poor your "research" was. You can't legitimately reject something you clearly don't even understand.

Go educate yourself. And you might want to avoid posting on evolution again until you actually understand it. You can avoid embarrassing yourself further that way.

[Spartan90]

Okay, so if you're finished proving my beliefs wrong, prove your beliefs in evolution right. I haven't heard that side from you, only how worthless my faith is

[Scorch]

It's evolutionists like you that think you know everything that makes me angry. I completely respect the theory of evolution, I just don't agree with it. I don't go out and bag the **** out of evolutionists, saying their thoughts are crazy just because they believe something different than I.

You can't agree or disagree with scientific facts, that's about the end of the story.