Poverty and Gangs in US Schools

[Da Skinna]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/15/bts...uts/index.html

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- It's the first week of their freshman year and four girls are gossiping outside of Jefferson High School as they wait for the bell to head inside.

If the numbers stay true, only one or two of them will graduate from high school. One of the girls, Ana Rosa Gutierrez, already says she doesn't like school. She calls it boring and says, "School doesn't give you money. You have to go ... drop out to go work and get money to support your family."

Ana Rosa is 13 years old.

I ask her if she's known anyone who left school. But I should have asked her if she's known anyone who stayed.

"Most of my brother's friends dropped out. My brother dropped out because we needed money, he got a job," says Ana Rosa.

"How old was he," I ask.

"I think, 16," she replies.

We listen to teachers take attendance during first period and look at all the empty seats in the classroom.

"Louis Romero? Louis? He's absent," the teacher remarks.

That's not unusual at Jefferson High School, where 58 percent of students, nearly six out of 10 students, drop out.

"I'm not proud of having the highest dropout rate in the system," says Principal Juan Flecha.

But there are many factors beyond his control. The families are for the most part poor. Many are held together by single mothers who don't have much money. So there's pressure in homes like Ana Rosa's for teens to get a job and help the family.


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But it's much deeper than that.

The school is located in an area of Los Angeles where new immigrants settle, mostly from Mexico and Central America. About half of the students are learning English as a second language and it's not often reinforced at home.

Jefferson has extended the school day to increase time spent on language arts, but Superintendent David Brewer asks, "How do you teach a child to not only learn a language, but master the language to the extent they can learn algebra? And learn Shakespeare?"

Nearly 75 percent of the parents of Jefferson High students did not graduate from high school. So there's no history of education to draw from. Still, the school is trying to hold parents accountable by working with the city attorney's "Operation Bright Future," a school truancy and gang prevention program.

"If their students are absent a lot, then the city attorney goes to the parents and says 'Listen if you don't get your kids in school then you could be in jail,' " says Brewer.

You can't separate the school from its neighborhood. Jefferson had to be locked down on the first day of school after there was a shooting just a half-block away. Students like Ana Rosa have to adopt an almost military mind-set just to get here, devising strategic routes through gang territory.

"One of the sad things is ... there are certain blocks where they know that it's just not safe to go through there," says Flecha. "And, they have to establish a very elaborate pathway from home to school."

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There are signs of hope.

In 2005, only half of the seniors passed the graduation exam. Last year, nearly three out of four students passed. Jefferson has beefed up security inside the school and has created a program that allows students choose their own track: teacher preparation, global leadership, business or creative arts.

So-called "dropout advisors" have increased home visits to students who have stopped coming to class. Jefferson recently qualified for nearly $2 million in state funds and it plans to hire 10 new teachers and a psychiatric social worker.

But will it be enough to keep students like Ana Rosa, who doesn't see school as anything that can make her life better?

As she walks through the front door of Jefferson, I ask her if she thinks she'll stay.

"Hopefully. Hopefully, I will. I don't know," she responds.


"But you're not sure," I prod.

"I'm not sure," she says.

The solution?

Keep the fathers in a steady, well-paid job. Keep the mothers in a steady part-time job. Both parents need to spend more time with their kids, they can't if they're committing crimes or having to work a lot.

If kids are the future, we sure as hell are picky.

[Gelgoog]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/15/bts...uts/index.html



The solution?

Keep the fathers in a steady, well-paid job. Keep the mothers in a steady part-time job. Both parents need to spend more time with their kids, they can't if they're committing crimes or having to work a lot.

If kids are the future, we sure as hell are picky.

actually most of the problems with gangs are a direct result of single mothers...unfortunate as it is. If you really want to end the gang problem, then you castrate anyone for violent/drug felonies because statistics show that if you have a parent who has been to prison, you have a very high chance of going some day as well. criminals breed more criminals.

[jankren]

Culture, family structure, and family educational background play a huge part in a child's development. It is a fact that the children of criminals will more likely to become criminals as the children of professors will more likely to become professors.

[spartan117]

hmmm reminds me of the incredible example that is Chicago. I am not able to this day not safe to travel through certain areas. While in High school it would be crap constantly watching everyone and everything. My sister's school is a somewhat good high school but it is located in a piss poor neighborhood and my father has to drive her there and back everyday for fear of something bad happening.

In Chicago I believe an experiment is happening involving payment as a reward. It will be going in effect this fall semester to the beginning of next year. I dont know the stipulations of reward though.

Apparently the parents just need to raise their children better.

[mrmouth]

hmmm reminds me of the incredible example that is Chicago. I am not able to this day not safe to travel through certain areas. While in High school it would be crap constantly watching everyone and everything. My sister's school is a somewhat good high school but it is located in a piss poor neighborhood and my father has to drive her there and back everyday for fear of something bad happening.

In Chicago I believe an experiment is happening involving payment as a reward. It will be going in effect this fall semester to the beginning of next year. I dont know the stipulations of reward though.

Apparently the parents just need to raise their children better.

The payment is like $20 for an A. These kids can make thousands of dollars a day smoking weed, drinking malt liquor and selling crack. Its not going to work in Austin and Englewood.

Chicago is interesting because right next to the very worst neighborhoods are well off neighborhoods. I grew up in the city around Wicker Park/
Humboldt Park/Garfield Park. Ive seen plenty of kids who had a downright horrible family situation make it out of the ghetto. Ive also seen well off minorities turn their back on privilege and join hardcore gangs.

Its a culture. Its built on many things, rap music, etc. I pretty much agree with all that Bill Cosby has to say about the situation. Black culture is killing black kids, or anyone else who gets caught up in the violence.

[Viking Prince]

as a conservative and libertarian -- I hate to admit that part of the problem is society. People respond to incentives. If they believe their future is brightest dealing crack, they may very well deal crack. Not always.

The real problem is risjy behavior. When I was a kid and exhibited risky behavior, it was rather lame. Things such as playing tag with cars at night on the city streets with the lights off on side streets just creeping along. Stupd stuff, but not like risky behavior today. People who enjoy the rush or perhaps some other benefit more physical than psychic will tend to repeat riskiy behavior. Or worse, up the stakes with greater risk.

Parental supervision is needed to decrease such behavior before habits form. Neighbors need to look after other peoples kids when the parent is not around. Not any more since this may mean lawsuits. Suburbs are not set up for kids to play in the neighborhood. We may not even know the neighbors as well as our parents and grandparents knew their neighbors.

No wonder the kids feel detached from society and find necessary activities boring and undesirable.

[Osceola]

Damn I hate topics like this. I was one of those kids who thought the first year, he'd make it. Then came end of sophomore year and I pretty much knew I was a future drop out.

And thats exactly what I became. It's emberassing as .

Almost all the poor kids I knew dropped out, in fact I can't think of one that stayed. And I didn't even grow up with a single parent family. I had 2.

[Arthum]

Unfortunately it's still true, that where you are able to go in life is 99% defined by where you're from and who your parents, even in "Fromdishwashertomilionaire"-county.

In Germany we actually have pretty much institutionalized this fact.After six years of elementary school you'll get a recommendation for the next level of our school system, which is split into three levels.One (Hauptschule) goes up to ninth grade and your job prospects aren't really good, if that's where you ended up.Next (Realschule) goes to 10th-11th grade and you might be able to take any profession up to university level,only if you're one of the chosen few (well, it's a 1/3+x of graduates toady) graduating from a Gymnasium you'll be able to pretty much do anything you like, including, going to University.

Obviously it's mostly immigrants and the poor that end up in the "Hauptschule" and according to newest studies, it's often regardless of their performance in elementary school.Apart from that you're already severely disadvantaged if your parents don't/can't teach you the value of knowledge and learning (not even mentioning the importance of "social networking" later on).Also ,of those that make it to the highest echelon of our school system, working class parents are much less willing&able to support their children going to University - even though it's free (..for some - for nothing,for others), you'll still have to pay for your normal sustenance and if your parents can't ,you'll have to work for it, which in many cases will influence the grades quite substantially, not many are willing to take this risk.

Possible Solution:
Well,it's the families that still making up the fabric of our societies and this somewhat hampers social mobility and lessens the meritocratic element.I think the Scandinavian countries are onto something there, having full time care for children from the earliest age onward.I think it's much better this way, since I don't think we should treat children as if they were their parents property, instead of letting the state ensuring the same, or at least similar chances for all.

P.S.

And damn,dude, I still think your threads are academy-material and not mudpit filth.

[Mithie]

The solution is to collectively declare a war on teenage gang violence and drug use.

[Da Skinna]

I did start a thread implying more abortions means less crime... because of less poor people, as cruel as that may sound.

I want to avoid a class-ridden hell like Europe though. I think it's a combination of things.

Parents have to spend more time working, which means less time with their kids. Single mothers it's extremely tough, they have to work two full jobs often.

Poverty breeds desperation, and desperation breeds criminal activity.

Let's ask WHY there's drug use. Let's ask WHY there's gang violence.

Otherwise, we are just criminalizing poor people. And it's already a sin to be poor in America.

[Arthum]

I did start a thread implying more abortions means less crime... because of less poor people, as cruel as that may sound.

On a global scale this might be effective, not on a national basis however.

I want to avoid a class-ridden hell like Europe though. I think it's a combination of things.

Germany is an exception imo, especially in the Scandinavian countries the chances for equality in education, regardless of the social status of their parents are much better than in the US (and even Germany is above the US in the OECD-ranking IIRC).

Poverty breeds desperation, and desperation breeds criminal activity.

Quite correct, but what would you recommend as a counter-measure ?

Maybe we are of too different political cultures, since I -in this case at least- want more participation and 'meddling' of the state (=we the people) and would be willing to pay for it, while this does not seem the way (U) americans tick.

I simply think it's the responsibility of the state to provide much more of a social balancing, transfering much more of at least the financial burden on the "shoulders of the many" (aka taxpayers) ,instead of letting those unable to bear it ,struggle and collapse beneath it, not only for their benefit, but the benefit of all (less crime).

[Каие]

How can we say America is land of the free, and hope and glory? This isn't an isolated event.

[Thanatos]

I despise the mindset that if you're poor, it's all your fault. So many circumstances in life make that statement totally untrue.

[Last Roman]

I despise the mindset that if you're poor, it's all your fault. So many circumstances in life make that statement totally untrue.

so true, and while I do hate to politicize this, its a mindset many conservatives have, a far too black and white view. While I agree that people have responsibilities that they need to deal with, there are so many factors that work against them.

[Gelgoog]

so true, and while I do hate to politicize this, its a mindset many conservatives have, a far too black and white view. While I agree that people have responsibilities that they need to deal with, there are so many factors that work against them.

if your poor and never actually try to advance yourself or your career then yes its your fault. its really not that expensive or difficult for people to get an education. grants, scholarships, student loans, student aid...etc. working at walmart complaining that your to poor to do anything and never attempting to do anything else is pure laziness.

yes there are exceptions : criminal record, medical condition..etc but the vast majority of people are just lazy. lazy doesnt necessarily mean they dont work hard, it can mean that they have so convinced themselves they are stuck being poor that they dont even look for a way out with any conviction. self fulfilling prophecy. then again there are alot of poor people because they are just stupid s who piss away their income on booze, drugs, new cars, and then get themselves into massive debt.

There is no rigid class system in the US...everybody can live comfortable lives if they apply themselves and seek out opportunities that are all over the place.

I've been working my ass off for the past 4 years in college working fulltime to pay rent and pay for school. I dont go out and drink alot because I dont have time or money to waste on that. I spend my money wisely and always pay off my credit cards. So I have no sympathy for most people in the US who complain about being poor unless they have a legitimate excuse.

[roy34543]

even in areas and countries where crime is low this problem still exists, it has to do with people taking advantage of single-parents and kids themselves really, if you offer someone under 18 a job .. any job your probably encouraging him to drop out of school. School only sounds appealing when theres no alternative to it.

[Каие]

This seems like something from society there just isn't enough help for poor people in the USA. What is the problem?

[Big War Bird]

This seems like something from society there just isn't enough help for poor people in the USA. What is the problem?

We have spent trillions upon trillions in welfare programs since th 1960s, yet the poverty rate has pretty much stayed the same. One can hardly make the argument that there has not been enough people.

Perhaps the wrong kind of help . . .

[Каие]

We have spent trillions upon trillions in welfare programs since th 1960s, yet the poverty rate has pretty much stayed the same. One can hardly make the argument that there has not been enough people.

Then something is going horribly wrong. Corruption?

Perhaps the wrong kind of help . . .

It may not all be financial...i.e. economy, health insurance, gas/petrol etc. drugs even...

Pretty dire situation.

[El Brujo]

Peer pressure plays a role. Appearing too smart or too successful is uncool for a lot of kids, mostly the poor ones. Not the biggest culprit obviously, but it's there.