No victory in Iraq, says Petraeus

[HorseArcher]

The outgoing commander of US troops in Iraq, Gen David Petraeus, has said that he will never declare victory there.

In a BBC interview, Gen Petraeus said that recent security gains were "not irreversible" and that the US still faced a "long struggle".

When asked if US troops could withdraw from Iraqi cities by the middle of next year, he said that would be "doable".

In his next job leading the US Central Command, Gen Petraeus will also oversee operations in Afghanistan.

He said he did not know that he would ever use the word "victory": "This is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade... it's not war with a simple slogan."

He said al-Qaeda's efforts to portray its jihad in Iraq as going well were "disingenuous". It was, in fact "going poorly", he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7610405.stm

[Da Skinna]

How many commanders have admitted Iraq was a stupid move?

[ComnenusTheOne]

How many commanders have admitted Iraq was a stupid move?

probably all

[Farnan]

He simply stated he will not declare victory because doing so lends itself a sense of false confidence and gets people's hopes up.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

He simply stated he will not declare victory because doing so lends itself a sense of false confidence and gets people's hopes up.

Actually he said that he won't declare victory since you can't in this sorta struggle:

"This is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade... it's not war with a simple slogan."

which I agree with.
Also you have to consider, what exactly is he gonna declare victory on.
The reason why the US is fighting in Iraq isn't really clear after all.
WMD, freedom, terror, Oil ?? The reasons have changed whenever it suits the politicans in the US.
He can really hope to achieve a certain level of stability but Iraq will no doubt see attacks for a long time even if they might lessen in numbers.
You can't really declare victory on that and I think he knows it.

[Da Skinna]

So if and when hits the fan again, nobody will point fingers.

[Farnan]

So if and when hits the fan again, nobody will point fingers.

Petreaus is a student of Vietnam. He learned from Westmoreland, you never declare victory, because then the Viet Cong will launch a Tet Offensive, and even though you decisively destroy them you will lose public trust.

[Каие]

This Patreus is a clever guy, why is he going? It says the outgoing commander, he has done wonders over there, and still has a brain. He is exactly the kind of guy the next POTUS and the Iraqis need. Someone who know how to fight a war and who doesn't lie about it.

[Farnan]

This Patreus is a clever guy, why is he going? It says the outgoing commander, he has done wonders over there, and still has a brain. He is exactly the kind of guy the next POTUS and the Iraqis need. Someone who know how to fight a war and who doesn't lie about it.

He is going to be Commander of Central Command, the command overseeing the operations in both Iraq and Afghanistan. His protege, General Ordieno is going to take direct control of Iraq.

[Каие]

He is going to be Commander of Central Command, the command overseeing the operations in both Iraq and Afghanistan. His protege, General Ordieno is going to take direct control of Iraq.

Ah...so Patreus junior will command Iraq, and Patreus will command the whole theatre. Lets hope he also does wonders in Afghanistan the more important war which requires one hell of a strategy change, similar to what we saw in Iraq.

[Da Skinna]

Would a surge in Afghanistan work the same way? Or two different beasts do you think?

[Iscariott]

Would a surge in Afghanistan work the same way? Or two different beasts do you think?

If we managed to find a 100k+ sunni militia to pay off, a surge would work quite nicely I'm sure.

But anyway, yes more troops in Afghanistan are needed. But the problem seems to lie more with the fact that Pakistan shares a border with Afghanistan, and thats where attacks are now coming from.

[danzig]

Would a surge in Afghanistan work the same way? Or two different beasts do you think?

Would help but only as a stop gap since its two different beasts imo since you have the Pakistani safe haven factor....nothing like that exist in Iraq. Once the population turns against concept of insurgency (as it was going) there isnt anyplace for them to operate out of, as long as Pakistani side of it is basically wild wild west version of Islam that wont be the case.

Oh and title of the thread btw is misleading...

[Farnan]

They need to apply the Petraeus Doctrine to Afghanistan:

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/images/CGs_M...in_unclass.pdf

Promote reconciliation. We cannot kill our way out of this endeavor. We and our Iraqi partners must identify and separate the “irreconcilables” from the “reconcilables” through thorough intelligence work, population control measures, information operations, kinetic operations, and political initiatives. We must strive to make the reconcilables part of the solution, even as we identify, pursue, and kill, capture, or drive out the irreconcilables.

From the link which gives the doctrine...

(This is only part of the doctrine).

[André Masséna]

Petraus is a beast as far as Strategy is concerned. If anyone can turn a war around, it's him.

The man has basically saved Bush from being totally lynched in his actions that turned the war "around" in Iraq. Not to say we were getting beat like a drum, but the improvements are impossible to deny.

[Каие]

The man has basically saved Bush from being totally lynched in his actions that turned the war "around" in Iraq. Not to say we were getting beat like a drum, but the improvements are impossible to deny.

Its also impossible to deny the fact that the biggest reason was not the surge, but the fact that the 100,000 Sunni insurgency switched sides, meaning the guys who were killing the Us troops before are now on their side, completely swaying the battle. Not to mention the SAS/Delta joint clear up of over 4,000 terrorists.

[Farnan]

Its also impossible to deny the fact that the biggest reason was not the surge, but the fact that the 100,000 Sunni insurgency switched sides, meaning the guys who were killing the Us troops before are now on their side, completely swaying the battle. Not to mention the SAS/Delta joint clear up of over 4,000 terrorists.

Which is a major part of the Petraeus Doctrine, separating the reconcilable from the irreconciliables...

At Burnum: That is actually one of the non-kinetic tools pushed by General Petreaus...

http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?i...3199411vf6.jpg

[Каие]

Which is a major part of the Petraeus Doctrine, separating the reconcilable from the irreconciliables...

At Burnum: That is actually one of the non-kinetic tools pushed by General Petreaus...

It's true, Patreus's strategy effectively preserved and nurtured the alliance and used it to full strength along with the anti-terror measures, pretty impressive.

But there are still problems within Iraq....such as the logistical capability of the Iraqi Army, it still relies entirely on the USA, without them it would deaf, dumb and blind. What does Patreus say about that?

[Farnan]

It's true, Patreus's strategy effectively preserved and nurtured the alliance and used it to full strength along with the anti-terror measures, pretty impressive.

But there are still problems within Iraq....such as the logistical capability of the Iraqi Army, it still relies entirely on the USA, without them it would deaf, dumb and blind. What does Patreus say about that?

He states that that has to be dealt with:

Look for Sustainable Solutions. Build mechanisms by which the Iraqi Security Forces, Iraqi community leaders, and local Iraqis under the control of governmental institutions can continue to secure local areas and sustain governance and economic gains in their communities as the Coalition Force presence is reduced. Figure out the Iraqi systems and help Iraqis make them work.

[Aetius]

Petraeus 2012!