Problems with logic of Used Military Size (UMS)

[Kupr]

My UMS started to grow just enormously.

I formed only around 3 spearmen and 2 Axemen for 10 turns and I fulfilled soldiers in current armies (plus I received only one new general) . My UMS increased from 195 till 250. I decided to look on it:

I disbanded several hered before Mercenary units and UMS decreased till 245.

I can't build troops for 5 turns and I hired 4 Mercenary Spearmen, 2 Mercenary Arquenusiers and 2 Mercenary Pavize Crossbowmen. My UMS increased from 245 till 270 next turn...

Is it normal or bug?
What happens?

[repman]

Increasing unit_limit umz:
-negative_event_agriculture
-draft
-dark ages

hm maybe Mercenaries count for UMZ...

repman

[Kupr]

Fantastic results.
I deleted ALL (!!!) my military units (deleating 1 by 1) excluding generals (9 Generals*3=27)
My UMS decreased from 270 till 155!!!. I did one turn it is still 155!!! 128 additional military points!!!

How check files responsible for effect?

P.S. I did second turn and received event "Back to normal at your fields". UMS was 155 again.

[Kupr]

to repman

I posted it in Bugs Reports:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=180795&page=8

[onlyCookie]

Odd, at the moment i find that my available military size exceeds my used military size by loads!(literally by hundreds) and i've only got one castle...

[Kupr]

So nobody can help me to edit save?

[Odie the King]

Kupr,

I cant help you.. but I had the same thread as yours.. I have multiple un-accounted for Used military. I dont know where the problem is..

Repman clarified that Bad Agriculture and the Dark Ages can add 40 to the used military size.. but this doesnt completely account for all my used military size.
I cant recruit anything only hire mercenaries

[Alatar98]

i dont have a ton of time to play around with it but did anyone try merging armies and see if the count goes down?

[Kupr]

Merging all armies? What do you mean?

[Zeeky_Bomb]

I was thinking the same thing, actually.

If you have two spearman units of 20 men and combine them into one, does DLV correctly adjust the UMS?

Or does it only update on creation/death?

[Kupr]

I was thinking the same thing, actually.

If you have two spearman units of 20 men and combine them into one, does DLV correctly adjust the UMS?

Or does it only update on creation/death?

Actually it could be reason of mine huge additional UMS. Last
20-25 years I fought with Poland. There were many very cruel battles with constant changing and reinforcement of units. I had three armies and I reinforced units every turn. Most my units have three gold stripes as veterans now.
Actually most armies had small number in units when I took Poland’s castle and presented it to Denmark, so I lost land connection with Poland and constant fights were ended. I started to reinforce my units in three armies (new soldiers were more than 70% in old units), plus forming of several units (3-5 units), instead of killed and effect was noted by me.

[Kupr]

I just lost any ability to understand logic of UMS.

I returned several years back and started to play with UMS 255 against Maximum ability 215.
Yesterday I played three turns and nothing changed. 255 against 215.
Today:

1st turn 250 against 215
2nd turn 245 against 215
3rd turn 215 against 215 (I received good summer – 10 UMS).

During second turn I merged two units in one (it was mistake). I didn’t hire and lose any units during this time.

[ivanhoex]

afaik the mergin of two units will not count as dismissing one. so you will still have the two units for ums purposes.

(but hiring mercs and then disbanding them i believe adds a unit to your count)

[Odie the King]

Im in the same boat as all of you... I have unaccouted for UMS used up somewhere.. I have a similar thread I started on this a couple of weeks ago. anyway I can tell you that merging will lower the UMS. the UMS will update even during the same turn.. you dont need to go to next turn for the UMS to update..

[Zeeky_Bomb]

I checked the UMS in my Lombard League campaign, and I have 0 used of 370 - no idea how that is, since I'd estimate it to be around 150.

The UMS concept really needs to get looked over, maybe even removed.

[Elvallie]

Why remove it? I find it greatly immersive. Just tune it, IMO.

[Odie the King]

I agree.. I like the UMS... just needs explained in more detail and tweaked... I like not having the ability to build unlimited amoutn of units and stampede the AI.. because that is what would happen.. The UMS forces the player to use his troops wisely...

[onlyCookie]

I definatly think this feature should stay. It adds yet another layer of realism/challenge. That especially comes into the fore during the latter sections of a campaign. At the begginning its money, but if you play your cards right, that quickly becomes a non-issue.

One thing I will say, having checked on my own game, if you find u have many unaccounted UMS, hiring and firing mercs in the same turn will decrease your used points.

Obviously abusing this will become a spoiler, but for those experiencing the merge bug, this is a way of reversing it.

[PrivateJoh]

Hi there,

I do not know anything about the UMS mechanics, or why we are all getting different numbers. It seems a little bit too random for me, but I will take it as it is part of the package. Anyhow, I have not been able to figure out the upkeep cost of my army either, and here I am still playing the mod.

In my opinion, UMS recreates well the idea that a kingdom cannot CREATE an unlimited number of unit for its army, basically because the population is limited. Therefore, it does make sense that the available UMS does not decrease when you are merging depleted units as the dead men/women (if wanted to be politically correct) do not go back to the population. They are dead you know.

To sum up: available UMS should increased with population and development to a lesser extent, and also during time as your population is replenished as years pass by. I think that is the rationale now, even though the implementation is rather obscure to me.

Joh

[Zeeky_Bomb]

I think the way it's supposed to be now is that the limit goes up with development, and moves down one every few turns to represent immigration and such.

Clarifying on my last post, it's not so much that I dislike the idea, I just thought it could be too hard to fix since the files appear logical already.