Behind the Campaign Rhetoric and Importance of Fact-Checking

[Da Skinna]

Oh yes, more Bill Moyers.

If you hope to watch the campaign, this is a must see.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09122008/watch2.html

Media experts Brooke Gladstone and Les Payne take stock of how the media have fared in the 2008 cycle. Do political partisans on both sides prefer propaganda to the facts?

[Viking Prince]

Oh yes, more Bill Moyers.

If you hope to watch the campaign, this is a must see.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09122008/watch2.html

I began to highlight the McCain/Palin/Republican references and count. Then do the same for the Obama references and count.

I realized the only comments regarding Obama was when he was powerless to counter act the McCain media spin.

This is trash talk dressed up to be informational. It is junk. If they were really wanting to look at the campagn manipulation and celebrety power -- just one example of Sen. Obama would have been obvious to start things off. Nope.

[HorseArcher]

I began to highlight the McCain/Palin/Republican references and count. Then do the same for the Obama references and count.

I realized the only comments regarding Obama was when he was powerless to counter act the McCain media spin.

This is trash talk dressed up to be informational. It is junk. If they were really wanting to look at the campagn manipulation and celebrety power -- just one example of Sen. Obama would have been obvious to start things off. Nope.

This wasn't about Obama. This whole thing is about why Obama doesn't matter (and neither McCain) whether we go to experience or policy or truth. The whole thing is about on what base the american people choose their favorite candidates, and it has to do with "similarities" - religion, "hockey-mom", "going to church on sunday mom" ...etc...
The people are looking for candidates who seem to be similar to them, regardless of experience or work done in the past. That's why Bush won twice in a row, people can identify with him, and it doesn't matter whether he is dumb or not.

Again, another person who misunderstand the whole topic.

Again, it's not about left or right side, it's not about black or white, or republican or democrat, it's about how the people think and act and choose, based on the personality and similarities between them (us) and him( her). Listen one more time to the video instead of overreacting about it.

Look at my sig. It's a satirical display of what it could come down to in the eye of the public, regardless of economy or wars or high gas prices.... the damn lipstick.

[Viking Prince]

This wasn't about Obama. This whole thing is about why Obama doesn't matter (and neither McCain) whether we go to experience or policy or truth. The whole thing is about on what base the american people choose their favorite candidates, and it has to do with "similarities" - religion, "hockey-mom", "going to church on sunday mom" ...etc...
The people are looking for candidates who seem to be similar to them, regardless of experience or work done in the past. That's why Bush won twice in a row, people can identify with him, and it doesn't matter whether he is dumb or not.

Again, another person who misunderstand the whole topic.

Again, it's not about left or right side, it's not about black or white, or republican or democrat, it's about how the people think and act and choose, based on the personality and similarities between them (us) and him( her). Listen one more time to the video instead of overreacting about it.

Look at my sig. It's a satirical display of what it could come down to in the eye of the public, regardless of economy or wars or high gas prices.... the damn lipstick.

I understand exactly -- I am just amused the issue is Palin as a celebrity -- not "rock star" Obama filling stadiums. And it is about left or right with Moyers. Otherwise the issue would cover both sides and one of the guests would not have been a particular partisan hack pushing a book on how manipulative the republicans are. Have you looked at the book?

[Da Skinna]

Which book is it?

And I can't understand this attack of Obama as a celebrity. He speaks well. So people pay attention. Is that so "rock star-ish" it's abhorable? I mean, it is America, land of the celebrity, so is it any wonder?

Gladstone: Once again, it isn't that the questions were so good, the questions were what they ought to have been. But, the answers are so bad. I mean, the fact of the matter is, is if all you have to say is, "Give me an example," to play stump the candidate, then the problem isn't with the questioner, it's with the candidate.


Oh and the most important piece of this piece is the last part, where BOTH Obama and McCain are whores to big corporations.

[Viking Prince]

Which book is it?

And I can't understand this attack of Obama as a celebrity. He speaks well. So people pay attention. Is that so "rock star-ish" it's abhorable? I mean, it is America, land of the celebrity, so is it any wonder?

Gladstone: Once again, it isn't that the questions were so good, the questions were what they ought to have been. But, the answers are so bad. I mean, the fact of the matter is, is if all you have to say is, "Give me an example," to play stump the candidate, then the problem isn't with the questioner, it's with the candidate.


Oh and the most important piece of this piece is the last part, where BOTH Obama and McCain are whores to big corporations.

Book: Russell Banks, Dreaming Up America. He should stick to fiction. It is all a media plot/manipulation as to why we invaded Iraq. Could not possibly be due to poor intel and already tied to Saddam due to the first war/ceasefire.

I am simply stating that the media did describe on many an occasion the "rock star status" of Sen. Obama. The huge crowds, fainting in the front rows, etc. Yet the entire focus of the Moyers show is regarding Gov. Palin and not even a mention of celeb status by certain democrats. Not fair and not balanced -- pardon the Fox line.

This is typical of Moyers -- the shows are always so "even handed" and wanting only to get at an idea, but they also seem to never treat political parties the same. This is why I avoid his shows. The propoganda hand is too heavy and dishonest even if it is in the background. If you ever listened to Buckley's shows, you would see the difference. You knew where he stood and then that was fine. Moyers wants to play the "I am a journalist" game when he is clearly partisan and the guest selection reflects this.

[Da Skinna]

.... maybe... because political parties aren't the same.

What Banks spoke of is nothing new, it's been talked about many times before. I remember Chris Matthews talking to a Republican Congressman about it regarding Bush.

The fact is, Obama got where he was through perseverence, diligence, eloquence and charisma, and it got it him far.

Palin however, the decision was a surprise. It seems entirely political, a slap in Clinton's face, and to trot out a nobody and turn them into a star overnight, now that is celebritizing.

[Viking Prince]

.... maybe... because political parties aren't the same.

What Banks spoke of is nothing new, it's been talked about many times before. I remember Chris Matthews talking to a Republican Congressman about it regarding Bush.

The fact is, Obama got where he was through perseverence, diligence, eloquence and charisma, and it got it him far.

Palin however, the decision was a surprise. It seems entirely political, a slap in Clinton's face, and to trot out a nobody and turn them into a star overnight, now that is celebritizing.

To not see that the Moyers show was very partisan is to be too partisan for an honest debate. I think that I already established that the Obama campaign should have been mentioned in such a discussion. It's lack on mention shows the bias of Moyers. Why debate the issue?

[Da Skinna]

To not see that the Moyers show was very partisan is to be too partisan for an honest debate. I think that I already established that the Obama campaign should have been mentioned in such a discussion. It's lack on mention shows the bias of Moyers. Why debate the issue?

First of all, the show did mention where BOTH parties failed, and that was how they BOTH had lobbyists from Fannie and Freddie.

I'm sorry you feel it's too partisan, but it seems like you have blinders on convincing you that political parties are the same.

Because one party has been in power for eight years, six of them with House majority, has squandered eight years of progress in order to give billions to the rich, billions to the military, billions to paramilitary, squandered on helping victims of a horrific hurricane, began and continues to support a war in a country that arguably had NO significant threat to its security....

and you EXPECT, you think you have any right to EXPECT that we look at both parties as if they are BOTH on square one?!

THAT is blinding partisanship.

[Viking Prince]

First of all, the show did mention where BOTH parties failed, and that was how they BOTH had lobbyists from Fannie and Freddie.

I'm sorry you feel it's too partisan, but it seems like you have blinders on convincing you that political parties are the same.

Because one party has been in power for eight years, six of them with House majority, has squandered eight years of progress in order to give billions to the rich, billions to the military, billions to paramilitary, squandered on helping victims of a horrific hurricane, began and continues to support a war in a country that arguably had NO significant threat to its security....

and you EXPECT, you think you have any right to EXPECT that we look at both parties as if they are BOTH on square one?!

THAT is blinding partisanship.

Sorry. I went back for a relook at the show. Obama was only mentioned in respect to a slam on the republicans. Maybe I missed your balance. Please quote from the transcript.

What the republicans did or did not do in power has nothing to do with the McCain campaign nor the Obama campaign. The discussion was about celebrity and media manipulation in the current election campaign.

[Da Skinna]

I never said there was balance, because it is irrational to try and balance a situation in the media that has no balance in and of itself.

The Republican Party then has nothing to do with the Republican Party now.... a few years down the road? That in itself sounds like manipulation. It sounds like they're trying to whitewash the last eight years and consolidate their party so they can have another go. Look at the RNC, how much mention was there?

How is it bias? Journalists question those in power and those who want power. To ask for "balance" when they start asking questions of a party that was in power, and screwed up consistently and squandered valuable resources and time, by asking the candidate that opposes them, questions that (who? Who decides they are as tough as the questions asked the administration?) are tough, it's just irrational.

The parties are not both on square one. They are not the same. They are not equal. I'm not saying one is better by saying they're not equal, but that when one is in power and screws up like it does, HOW do we balance that?

I don't think we can. It's irrational, it doesn't make sense.

Umm so did I win?

[Viking Prince]

Umm so did I win?

umm -- no. I had my say and have nothing to add. I guess we both lose since so few others have posted comment. Maybe you are right or maybe no one wantw to come to my defense.

Regards.

[Senno]

umm -- no. I had my say and have nothing to add. I guess we both lose since so few others have posted comment. Maybe you are right or maybe no one wantw to come to my defense.

Regards.

I would, but I didn't think it questionable that LBJ's former Press Secretary has a bit of a bias....

That and what he does as his day job, kinda gives the lie to "journalist". It's ok for him to have an opinion, but be honest about it.

[Desperado †]

Oh yes, more Bill Moyers.

If you hope to watch the campaign, this is a must see.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09122008/watch2.html

Looks a bit like anti-Obama propaganda.

[Da Skinna]

Looks a bit like anti-Obama propaganda.

Care to elaborate?