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  1. #1

    Default Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3426/46/

    Sorry that the source is biased, but you get the basic news, Greece closes the borders betweem the two.

    The Greek Government showed their displeasure at the UN announced visit to Greece by closing the Macedonian - Greek border earlier today.
    During the past two months, several Macedonian and Foreign Officials had sent letters to the UN as well as EU Organization regarding the plight of Macedonian and other minorities in Greece.
    The European Commission responded that it is not competent to review the situation of minorities.
    The United Nations on the other hand, decided to dispatch an expert to verify Athens claim of 99.9% Greeks with zero minorities.

    Greece showed their dismay by the UN Visit when Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis announced she will personally meet with the UN expert Gay McDougall where it is expected for Athens to exert pressure on the UN representative.
    Athens blames the UN visit squarely on Macedonian Officials for their letters, even though previously had mocked them.

    As a ‘punishment’ Athens shut down the border, at all three border crossings (Evzoni, Medzitlija, Dojran) since early morning today, blocking Macedonian Vacationers from going to Greece. Foreign visitors going to Greece through Macedonia were allowed to cross the border.

    The official story out of Athens for the blockade is “The Greek Customs are on Strike at the Macedonia Greece Border”. People most likely to be hurt here are Greek Hoteliers who have had by all accounts a dismal Tourism Season, as for the Macedonians, they can spend their vacation and shopping money in Macedonia, as they should have done in the first place.

    Why is Athens so upset at the UN visit looking into the minorities?
    According to Jane’s Defense Magazine and the Human Rights Watch, Greece has 500,000 Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia, with further 250,000 to 400,000 Macedonians (economic migrants) to the south, mainly in Athens.
    HRW also adds the presence of 500,000 Roma population, 1.7 million Albanians of which 1 million are not citizens. The ethnic Turks and Pomaks in Trace number 400,000, and the Vlachs add additional 300,000. Greece also has registered 1 million legal immigrants from the Middle East and Africa, with further 500,000 illegal immigrants, mainly from Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan.
    Why does every name in Greece sound “Greek” hence stoking up Athens claims of “purity”?
    Very simply, it is illegal in Greece to name your children with names other than “Greek”.

    Athens, via the Greek Orthodox Church which acts as a de facto second Government forces citizens to adopt only a “Greek” name for their children.
    A foreign or ethnic sounding name isn’t allowed by the Greek Church, and any new born will not be registered by the State, this way the myth of 'Greek purity' goes on.
    As an example, the grandfather of Macedonian PM who was born in Aegean Macedonia (presently Greece), had his first and last name changed by the Greek Government from Nikola Gruevski to “Nikos Grujos”.
    This is done to all ethnicities, not just the Macedonian one.
    The results of UN Expert Gay McDougall to her "Greece's Minorities" mission will be made available to the world in March of 2009. She will investigate Aegean Macedonia, Thrace and other regions.
    I understand some points in the article are biased towards Macedonia but let's try to ignore those and try not to argue them.

  2. #2
    ComnenusTheOne's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Biased?? Where is the bias? Lol.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    I thought there might be complaints, but to the topic, Greece ruined my vacation.


  4. #4

    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    I heard Georgia is nice this time of year, its just across the pond...

  5. #5
    ComnenusTheOne's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by attilavolciak07 View Post
    I thought there might be complaints, but to the topic, Greece ruined my vacation.

    Awww....bad awful Greece ruined ur vacation. Why you wanted to go to Greece in the first place?? Dont you hate them??

  6. #6
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by attilavolciak07 View Post
    http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3426/46/

    Sorry that the source is biased, but you get the basic news, Greece closes the borders betweem the two.



    I understand some points in the article are biased towards Macedonia but let's try to ignore those and try not to argue them.
    If we are to ignore the biased points, what are we supposed to comment on? You only want agreement?? On what??

    This thread will disappear or it will become ethnic pillow fighting by words unless there is a clearer idea by the OP as to what is desired in response.

  7. #7
    ComnenusTheOne's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Ethnic pillow fighting = fun

    Let it be.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    If we are to ignore the biased points, what are we supposed to comment on?
    I meant I don't want any Greeks/Macedonians to criticise it and change the thread.

    Ethnic pillow fighting = fun
    No, ethnic pillow fight = nationalism, which wasn't good in any of the Serbia/Macedonia threads

    Why you wanted to go to Greece in the first place?? Dont you hate them??
    I used to live there. And that doesn't mean I can't go there, and I don't hate them.

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    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by attilavolciak07 View Post
    I meant I don't want any Greeks/Macedonians to criticise it and change the thread.

    No, ethnic pillow fight = nationalism, which wasn't good in any of the Serbia/Macedonia threads

    I used to live there. And that doesn't mean I can't go there, and I don't hate them.
    The border was temporarily closed to make a political statement. Maybe a bit ham-fisted, but your complaint shows it to be effective. Sorry your plans were inconvenienced. Not as scary as waking up in a foreign country with no tourists to be found, armor on the street corners, and people just walking up to any aircraft on the runway and boarding with no questions asked or tickets being checked. Take your inconvenience as a very minor problem and move on. Be happy that you will be able to visit safely another day.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    What plans? I was just putting this up because it wasn't created yet. I'm not trying to argue with you.

  11. #11
    Viking Prince's Avatar Horrible(ly cute)
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by attilavolciak07 View Post
    What plans? I was just putting this up because it wasn't created yet. I'm not trying to argue with you.
    Sounds like your vacation was ruined. Oh well. No matter -- why not simply get to a real point then? This thread will go no where without it.

  12. #12
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    So let's get this straight:

    The UN is investigating a complaint supposedly coming from Macedonia, and Greece responds by denying Macedonian citizens entry?

    In that case I think Greece is on the wrong here.
    When you sign up with the UN, you can expect some UN investigations now and then, I think every country has had a visit from a UN inspector at least once.
    No need to get childish about it, and no need to punish Macedonian citizens for what their government did.



  13. #13
    ComnenusTheOne's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    So let's get this straight:

    The UN is investigating a complaint supposedly coming from Macedonia, and Greece responds by denying Macedonian citizens entry?

    In that case I think Greece is on the wrong here.
    When you sign up with the UN, you can expect some UN investigations now and then, I think every country has had a visit from a UN inspector at least once.
    No need to get childish about it, and no need to punish Macedonian citizens for what their government did.
    Punishment? Punishment would be 300.000 "macedonians" fleeing in Bulgaria and Serbia out of fear of an advancing Greek army. This is just a minor inconvinience (sp?) that will be settled in due time.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    I don't get it, what's wrong with a country being multicultural? Canada is full of people from different nations and it's still a great country.

    « There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it.

    A politician who portrays himself as 'caring' and 'sensitive' because he wants to expand the government's charitable programs is merely saying that he's willing to try to do good with other people's money. Well, who isn't?

    And a voter who takes pride in supporting such programs is telling us that he'll do good with his own money - if a gun is held to his head.» - P. J. O'Rourke



  15. #15
    ComnenusTheOne's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by NoFrag View Post
    I don't get it, what's wrong with a country being multicultural? Canada is full of people from different nations and it's still a great country.
    Its not a country. Its more like a geographic position. There is no Canadian nation, only anglosaxon, french, german and whatever other settlers made Canada.

  16. #16
    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by ComnenusTheOne View Post
    Its not a country. Its more like a geographic position. There is no Canadian nation, only anglosaxon, french, german and whatever other settlers made Canada.
    Agreed. Multicultural societies are disgusting.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    I have to say this argument regarding the name is completely ridiculous...Why don't the Egyptians criticise Egypt for being called Egypt, or the Assyrian's criticise Syria for being called Syria, or some other bollocks. Macedonia's full name is the Former Yugoslav Republic ...which is abbreviated as FYROM, and they are close to the geographical location of Macedonia and was part of the Roman Province of Macedonia, and the Greeks are under no threat as a member of NATO.

    This is just rampant, blind nationalism and pseudo-cultural nonsense aimed only at building up some kind of 2nd class national pride at the expense of regional stability. Shame you have to apply child like logic.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    I have to say this argument regarding the name is completely ridiculous...Why don't the Egyptians criticise Egypt for being called Egypt, or the Assyrian's criticise Syria for being called Syria, or some other bollocks. Macedonia's full name is the Former Yugoslav Republic ...which is abbreviated as FYROM, and they are close to the geographical location of Macedonia and was part of the Roman Province of Macedonia, and the Greeks are under no threat as a member of NATO.

    This is just rampant, blind nationalism and pseudo-cultural nonsense aimed only at building up some kind of 2nd class national pride at the expense of regional stability. Shame you have to apply child like logic.
    Exactly thats why Greece is only suggesting the SlavicMacedonia name,so any nationalist (volci of course is not Fyromian) claim will be impossible by any side,plus Greece is not saying that part of our soil is occupied by Fyrom.Also check the site and its links ,it is not so "innocent"
    There is only one Macedonia in the world and it is GREECE
    Kosovo is Serbia
    ΠΑΝΙΩΝΑΡΑ ΓΙΑ ΠΑΝΤΑ
    SUPPORTER OF MY SERBIAN BROTHERS

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by COMIS -3- ΠΑΝΙΩΝΑΡΑ View Post
    Exactly thats why Greece is only suggesting the SlavicMacedonia name,so any nationalist (volci of course is not Fyromian) claim will be impossible by any side,plus Greece is not saying that part of our soil is occupied by Fyrom.Also check the site and its links ,it is not so "innocent"
    Right, you missed my point completely I'm chastising both you for being little stupid children.

  20. #20
    Nikron's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Greece closes the border with Macedonia

    Quote Originally Posted by ЯoMe kb8 View Post
    Right, you missed my point completely I'm chastising both you for being little stupid children.
    Exactly. The best way to resolve this resolve their problem is if greeks allow them to use the name Macedonia. They have some strange claims.

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