Houston, we have a problem !

[Amaranth]

Ok, odd title I know. But the situation is no different.

I was playing XGM as Greeks, and Romans were pwning me (I had a topic about that too) anyways, I had enough of Roman Boots on me butt and decided to give it a break and play as Romans for a while.

So I started a brand new campaign as Romans.

Now.. I had a Full flag army with these units; hastati, triarii, principle, equites, velites and some mercs.

Against me there are Greeks Independent. With Phalangites, Hoplites, Cretans, Heavy Cavalary and Elephant (wtf ?!)..

Result was a crushing, a humiliating and historically disasterous defeat.

How come ?

When I had a similar army as greeks (without elephants but with better infantary) romans can either beat me or force me so hard I win but with a great casualty. (Ok not all the time, I admit, it's like If I win 3 times, I lose 1 time but that's not the point)

The real deal here is my Romans routed ! Yes, When our Armies clashed, They couldn't even hold their lines for 5 min.. I even charged my general with some cavalary behind the enemy and Rallied them but to no avail.

If Iwas playing as Greeks (I'm %100 sure of this) Romans wouldn't run away. They would stand and fight till the last unit like they usually do.

But what's this result ? Is it me ? I mean is AI controlled units are better about their morale or so ?

Cause I'm sure I'm not a bad General, there must something here I fail to see.

[Garnier]

If you play on hard or very hard difficulty the enemy get a huge boost in combat and morale, so you may end up losing as either side.

[Amaranth]

I play with Medium Campaign, Hard Battle settings.

[NobleNick]

I do not know how XGM mod modifies this; but RTW Vanilla 1.5 penalizes you, on the harder battle difficulties, with a morale penalty to all your troops. That is it, there are no other battle bonuses/penalties of any kind.

IIRC, the morale penalty is -4 for VH and is either -1 or -2 for Hard, +0 for Medium/Normal (whatever that setting is called), and +1 or +2 for Easy. The AI does NOT get any penalties or bonuses of any kind, on any difficulty setting.

[atraps]

IIRC, the morale penalty is -4 for VH and is either -1 or -2 for Hard, +0 for Medium/Normal (whatever that setting is called), and +1 or +2 for Easy. The AI does NOT get any penalties or bonuses of any kind, on any difficulty setting.

I do not think this is correct. Its the AI that gets the bonuses or the penalties, not the player.

Battle Difficulty-

Easy- -4 attack and morale for AI troops
Medium- no bonuses or penalties
Hard- +4 attack and morale for AI troops
Very Hard- +7 attack and morale for AI troops

The reason why it seems player troops have lower morale on high difficulty levels is because the enemy (AI) has morale bonuses, and with the RTW engine high morale troops scare troops with lower morale.

I think this is what happened in your battle as the Romans against the Greeks, though there could have of been other factors such as your general having morale reducing traits.


EDIT: You know, Amaranth, there is a guide on how to defeat Pyrrhos (he is the guy you were fighting when you were playing as Rome) in the XGM forums, here.

[Amaranth]

I do not think this is correct. Its the AI that gets the bonuses or the penalties, not the player.

Battle Difficulty-

Easy- -4 attack and morale for AI troops
Medium- no bonuses or penalties
Hard- +4 attack and morale for AI troops
Very Hard- +7 attack and morale for AI troops

The reason why it seems player troops have lower morale on high difficulty levels is because the enemy (AI) has morale bonuses, and with the RTW engine high morale troops scare troops with lower morale.

I think this is what happened in your battle as the Romans against the Greeks, though there could have of been other factors such as your general having morale reducing traits.

Actually I still have that problem atm. I formatted my pc and forgot to take xgm save files, therefore I started all over again, and almost with the same steps I did before. Now I have almost this same situation, and I can't achieve victory.
Their phalagites are seems to be unbreakable with Hastati and Principles. Triarii and Mercs assault from the flanks are not enough when Elephants charge to death.
I dunno what's the catch here maybe it's XGM cause, Normally when you surround a single unit with 6 unit they supposed flee. Right ? But they don't! They stand and keep my units busy, preventing them to attack the flanks in time.

I have tried about more than 12 times, It's just getting more and more annoying, causing me to detest the game so and I decided to not to try this again until I figure out a good and rational way to change the results.

If anyone have an advice, I'm all ears.

[Amaranth]

Then that is it huh ?

Note that, When I face the same army on the Custom Battle, I win.

Is this Attacker/Defender makes any difference ?

Cause I am the Attacker on this Battle.

[NobleNick]

Then that is it huh ?

Note that, When I face the same army on the Custom Battle, I win.

Is this Attacker/Defender makes any difference ?

Cause I am the Attacker on this Battle.

On custom battle, the default is probably Medium difficulty (unless you changed it) which gives you no morale penalty. I have also noticed that there is something odd going on in custom battle: when I try to do battles to see which force is better I need to play at least two battles, one playing as each side, because the human player gets a slight advantage, even when painstakingly trying to play as dumb as the A.I.

Attacker or Defender makes no difference, as far as built-in penalties/bonuses. But...

It is virtually always best to be the defender. This is because:

1.) The attacker must close and attack in order to win. The defender needs only survive until the battle timer expires.

2.) The attacking army uses up stamina just closing to melee. This can make a big difference later in the battle, since tired forces lose effectiveness and -IMPORTANT- take a morale penalty.

3.) By judicious positioning of forces, the defender can, 90% of the time, pick a location which forces the attacker to attack from downhill. This forces the attacker to climb to the fight (using up more stamina) and gives added bonuses to the force which is stationed uphill during the melee. Also, arrows fired from uphill travel farther and do more damage than arrows fired from downhill. On some extremely steep terrain, I have had my archers killing enemy before the computer would even tell me with a mouse-over, just what kind of unit it was.

4.) By judicious positioning, the defender can often lay traps for the attacker (e.g., hidden ambush) or force the attacker into compromising situations (e.g., bridges and other bottlenecks exposed to archer fire).

5.) The defender can often hide all his men except the general. Then run the genral around, with the enemy chasing until tired, then lead the tired enemy uphill to face the defender's fresh forces.

I hope that helps.

[Amaranth]

On custom battle, the default is probably Medium difficulty (unless you changed it) which gives you no morale penalty. I have also noticed that there is something odd going on in custom battle: when I try to do battles to see which force is better I need to play at least two battles, one playing as each side, because the human player gets a slight advantage, even when painstakingly trying to play as dumb as the A.I.

Attacker or Defender makes no difference, as far as built-in penalties/bonuses. But...

It is virtually always best to be the defender. This is because:

1.) The attacker must close and attack in order to win. The defender needs only survive until the battle timer expires.

2.) The attacking army uses up stamina just closing to melee. This can make a big difference later in the battle, since tired forces lose effectiveness and -IMPORTANT- take a morale penalty.

3.) By judicious positioning of forces, the defender can, 90% of the time, pick a location which forces the attacker to attack from downhill. This forces the attacker to climb to the fight (using up more stamina) and gives added bonuses to the force which is stationed uphill during the melee. Also, arrows fired from uphill travel farther and do more damage than arrows fired from downhill. On some extremely steep terrain, I have had my archers killing enemy before the computer would even tell me with a mouse-over, just what kind of unit it was.

4.) By judicious positioning, the defender can often lay traps for the attacker (e.g., hidden ambush) or force the attacker into compromising situations (e.g., bridges and other bottlenecks exposed to archer fire).

5.) The defender can often hide all his men except the general. Then run the genral around, with the enemy chasing until tired, then lead the tired enemy uphill to face the defender's fresh forces.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for the tips, I finally achieved victory!


This is my main army and the army of greeks.


And here's my Reinforment army.

First I positioned my Army up hill, and waited for Greeks to come closer, And as I expected they marched their archers to attack my units. As the Attacker here, I had to make a move to not to lose half of my men under archer fire.

Now.. There was a Wall of Phalanx in front of me, supported with Hoplites and Heavy Cav. to protect their flanks. I had to break that line if I expect to stand and cause considerable amount of casualties until my weak reinforcements arrive. To that I had to split their army and wear them out as much as I can and hopefully finding a weak spot to attack in time.

I sent Principles as first wave, 5 unit marched forward Phalanx Line and threw their pillas while 5 Hastati marched from the other side of the line and causing them to turn and face them. They were splited, that was my wish.
They immediately tried to stop my Hastati with their Elephants, but Velites were there to greet them, Hastati threw all their pillas on elephants and caused them to run amok but the I lost half of my Hastati doing that.

Principles charged and Triarii marched between the splitted army and attack from behind the enemy line Hoplites have been stopped by Samnite Mercs, at least tried to hold them as long as they could. My General is also charge behind the phalanxes held by hastatii and (melee charged velites) and my only slinger unit kept bombarding them.

But later then They attacked with their Cavalary and at that point they took the advantage from me. My Samnite were lost, Hastati were on the run, Principles and Tririi were not so promising either, and then my reinforcements arrived to battlefield.

I immediately pull my army back, and regrouped them. Greeks did the same thing. I attacked once again with the same tactic before (2 separate groups from each side) My General killed their's and Battlefield was mine from then on.




Still my casualties were great, and I think this battle was a bit harsh on me..

[Roman_Wolf]

this is not a good result my firend. half your army is gone. you should try to at least keep a few survivors from units so that you can retrain them.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Amaranth, you'll often find that depending on your difficulty level, the "good" enemy factions are only good because of the difficulty level, and when you play as them you have just as hard a time as before, again, because of the difficulty level. Its all in the name of fun and games, my friend (hope that clears your internal strife).