Sick and tired of the pope.

**Sorkenlol** · September 10, 2008, 12:28 AM

Well, as the topic says, the pope sucks. He crossed the line.

So I'm looking for a non-catholic faction, I'd rather not be russia or novgorod or any northeastern factions like that, mainly cause they're so isolated in the north and their locations suck. I'm thinking of Byzantine, but I don't like their lack of gunpowder, they don't have any cannons afaik. Also thought about Fatimids, love the location, and all the cities are really close to eachother even tho it's middle eastern. But they also lack gunpowder, and I'll be victim of crusades every 10th turn. So which faction do you think I should go for?

Also, I have another question, does Islam factions also have a whiny pope kind of guy that tells you what to do?

**Elvallie** · September 10, 2008, 12:34 AM

You can always kill the pope.

**Spartan90** · September 10, 2008, 12:44 AM

No, Islam countries have no Pope equivalent.

To offer advice on your faction selection, I would personally choose the Byzantines. If location is important to you, the Byzantines are in the BEST location in the game. Constantinople stands in the crossroads between Europe and the Middle East - Christianity and Islam. However, EVERY faction in the game will be after your lands, especially the Queen of Cities.

If you're worried about the lack of gunpowder, you can edit the units which each faction has access too, or you can play a mod that featured gunpowder. The Byzantines are very fun in SS, plus they can recruit the Greek Arquebues (sp?) I believe

**HighLord z0b** · September 10, 2008, 02:37 AM

As stated, Islamic factions have no whiny pope guy, however any Imam (Islamic priest) that has over 5 piety can declare a Jihad. So you get all the fun of crusading but you control the guy that calls it!

**phyacis** · September 10, 2008, 03:00 AM

One of my most memorable campaigns was playing as Russia, with the first goal of taking over Rome, then all of Italy. Very entertaining. I did lose ultimately but must of killed 20-30 popes by that point. Something to try maybe, if you're in the mood for a defensive campaign.

**Graf zu Adler** · September 10, 2008, 03:27 AM

Once I actually had a campaign, where the pope didn't appoint any cardinals, even as the college was completely empty! So, when he died, the papal states continued as a faction without leader (WTF?) and christianity had no leader left

**Double A** · September 10, 2008, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Graf zu Adler

Once I actually had a campaign, where the pope didn't appoint any cardinals, even as the college was completely empty! So, when he died, the papal states continued as a faction without leader (WTF?) and christianity had no leader left

It's called "Spam priests and send them to Jerusalem"

**Sorkenlol** · September 10, 2008, 04:33 AM

I tried byzantine, but I didn't like it, the units seemed quite weak and I missed being able to crusade etc. Just started a france campaign, going to start a fatimid campaign later today aswell, I'll choose from then.

**Spartan90** · September 10, 2008, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sorkenlol

I tried byzantine, but I didn't like it, the units seemed quite weak and I missed being able to crusade etc. Just started a france campaign, going to start a fatimid campaign later today aswell, I'll choose from then.

You have to give the Byzzies a bit of time to develop. Yes I agree, they are relatively weak at the start, but when they can access their powerful horse archers, heavy cavalry, guard archers and varangian guard, they can take on all western and middle eastern powers. And yeah, it does suck they don't have an orthodox equivalent to a crusade or jihad. They should have a "jihsade"?

You'll probably face the same problem with France - very weak in the beginning, but extrememly powerful later on (lancers and scots guard *drools*). I can't speak for the Fatamids as I don't play them much

**Sorkenlol** · September 10, 2008, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan90

You have to give the Byzzies a bit of time to develop. Yes I agree, they are relatively weak at the start, but when they can access their powerful horse archers, heavy cavalry, guard archers and varangian guard, they can take on all western and middle eastern powers. And yeah, it does suck they don't have an orthodox equivalent to a crusade or jihad. They should have a "jihsade"?

You'll probably face the same problem with France - very weak in the beginning, but extrememly powerful later on (lancers and scots guard *drools*). I can't speak for the Fatamids as I don't play them much

The biggest problem is that I have a mod that makes the armor upgrades historically accurate, takes 200 years before I can get plate armoured soldiers. It was included in the Perfectly Polished mod, and I love that mod, just wish I could get rid of that damn historically accurate armor mod. So basically, if I choose france, I have to play with voulgiers and crappy horses for over a hundred years until I can get an upgrade, just like you said, very weak in the beginning.

**Double A** · September 10, 2008, 09:49 PM

But in the end, France turned out to be the panzy nation they are now...

**Spartan90** · September 10, 2008, 11:33 PM

Hmm, you don't want to play as a faction that's weak at the start. I was going to say play as an Italian faction, but that means you'll have to deal with the Pope, and this thread is all about straying clear from Him. It's a tough choice, because if you're Catholic, you have to deal with the Pope, and if you're Muslim / Pagan, you have to deal with Crusades against you...

Maybe just play as a Catholic nation and kill the Pope?????

**Sorkenlol** · September 11, 2008, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Spartan90

Hmm, you don't want to play as a faction that's weak at the start. I was going to say play as an Italian faction, but that means you'll have to deal with the Pope, and this thread is all about straying clear from Him. It's a tough choice, because if you're Catholic, you have to deal with the Pope, and if you're Muslim / Pagan, you have to deal with Crusades against you...

Maybe just play as a Catholic nation and kill the Pope?????

I've been looking some at the muslim factions and I don't really like their units, rather weak and not alot of gunpowder, except the turks, they seem quite powerful, but if I am to be a muslim faction I'd rather be down at the fatimids/kwarezm rather than in the middle with hungary, byzantine etc. Also, pagan factions have the worst possible location in the game, stuck em right in the corner, cumans, lithuania, novgorod etc. Hate not being close to the ocean, black sea or whatever it is called. Think I'm just going to swallow it and play HRE as they have both good location and units.

**Inmisericorde** · September 11, 2008, 02:02 AM

Plays as the Turks and take over the Constantinople, and you are pretty much win the game; Constantinople is one step short to produce JHI. Just wait for them to make it first move and have they army far from Constantinople and attack with a Jihad. The Jihad will provide you with a cheap and pretty useful infantry that the Turks are lacking in the beginning got the Saracen militia to defend and JHI to attack. The rest of the campaign is a easy walkthrough. Your main enemy at the begging is the Byzantines, with Constantinople lost and probably also Nicaea in your way to Constantinople; they will no offer any significant resistance. Prepare for the Mongols and Timur it will be fun.