i honestly dont see the effects of the 2handed weapon bug

**Arcinatus** · September 09, 2008, 08:25 PM

really, i don't. i use 2h axemen alot and they do just fine against infantry (and cavalry if their in a melee... 0.0) the 2handed sword units are just AWESOME, and the polearm / poleaxe units are really versatile / useful.

what are the units that are affected by the 2h bug the most? i thought they were the 2h axemen....which seemed sort of unfair for the norse factions since they have a ton of those units...

**Wheelchair** · September 09, 2008, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Arcinatus

really, i don't. i use 2h axemen alot and they do just fine against infantry (and cavalry if their in a melee... 0.0) the 2handed sword units are just AWESOME, and the polearm / poleaxe units are really versatile / useful.

what are the units that are affected by the 2h bug the most? i thought they were the 2h axemen....which seemed sort of unfair for the norse factions since they have a ton of those units...

Have you patched or modded? If so then it would fix the bug.

**eggthief** · September 10, 2008, 12:19 PM

the bug aint fixed in 1.5, maybe the animation speed would be realistic but a peasant for example should never be able to block a the impact of 2h axe with just a dagger.

**Arcinatus** · September 10, 2008, 03:15 PM

i have M2TW patch 1.2, and kingdoms right now. also have the retrofit mod for kingdoms.

**Wheelchair** · September 10, 2008, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Arcinatus

i have M2TW patch 1.2, and kingdoms right now. also have the retrofit mod for kingdoms.

Then the bug should not remain

**Arcinatus** · September 10, 2008, 10:48 PM

..................................well that explains things then. thanks again wheelchiar o.o

**Blackader** · January 31, 2009, 03:29 PM

Sorry, but I have kingdoms, patched to 1.5, MTW II patched to 1.3, and my 2H axemen are very weak.

**Monsieur Alphonse** · January 31, 2009, 03:38 PM

Actually it is still there. The problem is that the animation can be blocked very easy by single handed units. That is why two handed axemen and units like dismounted English knights have an insane attack value. If they hit their opponent he will die. The problem is that they hardly hit because their attack is blocked. Kingdoms (including patch 1.5) never fixed this bug. That is why those units have a nice charge value but are useless in mêlée. DEK's are supposed to be flankers. Can you imagine any self respecting knight to be used as flanker.

**Blackader** · January 31, 2009, 03:54 PM

No... I don't know why they have done things like that...

**kannwar** · January 31, 2009, 04:06 PM

Does SS rebalance that at all?

**sinosleep** · January 31, 2009, 04:52 PM

This seems to be an issue of contention at these boards. I recently reinstalled after a year of not playing so I was looking to download the 2 handed weapon fix that was offered here because I didn't remember if 1.2 fixed it or not but when I searched for the thread I found that it had been relegated to the cemetery because it had been deemed fixed as of 1.2.

[edit here]

Some quick testing would imply that something is still seriously jacked up after patches. So far England's dismounted feudal knights have put a whoopin on every two handed troop thrown at them.

[edit here]

Ok, it's official. I have matched up every unit of two handed troops against nothing but various country's dismounted feudal knights and the knights have come out on top EVERY SINGLE TIME. I've done pc vs pc and player vs pc making it so that the knights were used in all situations. They won every single time. Looks like I need to download a mod before I bother with a Denmark campaign.

[edit here]

After doing some searching I guess I just wasted about 20 minutes doing all that testing. They aren't meant to be line units, it's an intentional design choice. 2 handed units are meant to be flankers, their big offensive bonus isn't supposed to overcome the low offense/high armor numbers of shielded infantry even if that's what the numbers might imply. Basically you treat them like cavalry. Chop up unarmored units and flank the armored ones.

**eggthief** · February 01, 2009, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by sinosleep

Basically you treat them like cavalry. Chop up unarmored units and flank the armored ones.

Problem is that cavalry is way better at flanking and makes 2h axe units useless anyway, btw people if you patched up your game then 2h sword units are beasts in melee.

**Eien** · February 01, 2009, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by eggthief

Problem is that cavalry is way better at flanking and makes 2h axe units useless anyway, btw people if you patched up your game then 2h sword units are beasts in melee.

Very true, i had a Zweihander unit chopping down 2 spear militia units down to nothing with 22 men down outo f 60, pretty impressive i'd say.

**sinosleep** · February 01, 2009, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by eggthief

Problem is that cavalry is way better at flanking and makes 2h axe units useless anyway, btw people if you patched up your game then 2h sword units are beasts in melee.

Originally Posted by Eien

Very true, i had a Zweihander unit chopping down 2 spear militia units down to nothing with 22 men down outo f 60, pretty impressive i'd say.

Did you guys read my posts? My game is FULLY patched. The reason you could fight the spear militia heads up is because they are also a 2 handed weapon unit, except they have even worse stats in every other category than true shock troops like Zweihanders.

Here's what I did when I was testing units heads up.

Me with a unit of 2 handers
PC with a unit of dismounted FEUDAL knights

situation one: I charge them from the front
situation two: I simply march at them
situation three: I use guard mode

next I did

Me with a unit of dismounted feudal knights
PC with a unit of 2 handers

situation one: I charge them from the front
situation two: I simply march at them
situation three: I use guard mode

next I did a 3 player game.

Me with a unit of peasants
PC 1 with a unit of 2 handers
PC 2 with a unit of dismounted feudal knights

situation: I run my peasants out of the way and let the PCs kill each other

I did these things for every two handed unit in the game against mostly English dismounted feudal knights and for English two handed units used Spain's dismounted feudal Knights.

The feudal knights came out on top in every last situation. They didn't lose a single battle last night. This was up against troops from the high/late periods when DFKs are available in the early. This makes it pretty clear who your line troops should be.

Afterward I did a couple of tests to see what 2 handers would be good at and used them essentially as I use my cavalry. With cavalry I try to charge only unarmored troops like archers unless it's a charge from the flank. They're not very good to actually melee with as your low end heavy cavalry have a hard time with even pavise crossbowmen in the like if they linger in melee after a frontal charge.

This is the area where your 2 hander units excell. You can charge spearmen from the front and wipe the floor with them in melee. You don't have to worry about stakes when facing the english. And when it comes to a rear charge while it takes more set up since they have to run/march, they still do a good job of routing enemy heavy infantry. When I lined up a unit of DFKs against another unit of DFK's then charged them from the rear with a 2 hander unit they were quick to route/die.

I've actually found them to be a pretty handy should you treat two hander units like cavalry. Most of the strengths other than speed, but no weakness to stakes/spearmen.

**O'Hea** · January 31, 2009, 11:18 PM

So, say I wanted to fix the bug without downloading a mod. What exactly would I have to change?

**sinosleep** · January 31, 2009, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by O'Hea

So, say I wanted to fix the bug without downloading a mod. What exactly would I have to change?

It's not a bug, they simply aren't intended to be line units.

**Marie Louise von Preussen** · January 31, 2009, 11:53 PM

I use SS 6.1, and Dismounted Knights of England are my best infantry. And yes, they can chop through Dismounted Feudal Knights, various assortments of heavy cavalry and even heavy spear infantry with ease.

**Conquistatore** · February 01, 2009, 12:05 AM

2h units are meant to be used shock troops to surprise and stun the enemy and to hit them where they least expect it, hard. That is what they are designed for, they don't have the armour (most of them) to stand up in a prolonged fight, that is what your Knight's and pikes are for.

**Eien** · February 01, 2009, 08:57 AM

Well... 2handers shouldn't be trusted to hold a line in the first place, i'm not sure about it, but my DEK and Zweihanders can go toe to toe with DFK's, although with considerable losses

**Conquistatore** · February 01, 2009, 04:17 PM

2 handers are not meant to be defensive hold the line type units. Like I said previously, that is what your knights and spearmen units are for. 2 handers should be used strictly for offence, not defence. They don't have that high attack stat to defend with..